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I am reading comments on paid content and various markets in OpenSimulator. I would like to share my thoughts and ask you to correct me if I'm wrong and shed some light on the topic.
In my opinion, Kitely has the best system both as a market and a control system. After working with it for a while, they have managed to achieve a significant result. Creators can set content that they don't want to be forced into permissions as non-exportable to other OpenSim grids, thus protecting it from the infamous GOD mode that users across all grids now have. On the other hand, those who want to make their content exportable risk selling fewer copies since it may be forced and potentially distributed everywhere.
I find it very challenging for original OpenSim creators to sell products and come close to the earnings of Second Life. For instance, even if I sell a product as no-transfer, if it ends up in the grid of a user with GOD powers, it will certainly be unlocked. Unlocking content has become an instinctive practice for many users.
It's a different story for those who create original products and release them for free. Even if unlocked, they will not suffer excessive damage (I hope), and people will be more inclined to respect permissions (I hope) and invite others to get their copy directly from the original creator without forcing and redistributing it as a favor for various friends on other grids (doing it discreetly), which can happen with paid products.
I honestly don't believe this problem will be resolved as long as GOD mode is accessible to everyone. Some grids have denied GOD mode to enforce respect for original creators' content, but these are not popular among users who can get everything they want with GOD mode. They prefer, at the same cost, to obtain regions even in poorly performing grids that allow them to do anything.
Another problem is the backup copies of regions. There have been grids that did not allow the default backup of objects without sufficient permissions, but these grids had no luck or popularity. Meanwhile, those who do not apply such restrictions obviously have more success. Even reloading the OAR on a new grid, the original creator could be permanently lost, creating confusion about who the original creator of the product is and whether the object has been purchased or not.
Therefore, honestly, I think selling on more or less renowned grids is limited to one, two, or ten sales, the time it takes for the product to be unlocked, given away, or loaded into other grids via OAR. All of this, except for Kitely, which has an exceptional system for controlling the "products" leaving its platform, a system that they don't publicly share from what I understand.
In my opinion, Kitely has the best system both as a market and a control system. After working with it for a while, they have managed to achieve a significant result. Creators can set content that they don't want to be forced into permissions as non-exportable to other OpenSim grids, thus protecting it from the infamous GOD mode that users across all grids now have. On the other hand, those who want to make their content exportable risk selling fewer copies since it may be forced and potentially distributed everywhere.
I find it very challenging for original OpenSim creators to sell products and come close to the earnings of Second Life. For instance, even if I sell a product as no-transfer, if it ends up in the grid of a user with GOD powers, it will certainly be unlocked. Unlocking content has become an instinctive practice for many users.
It's a different story for those who create original products and release them for free. Even if unlocked, they will not suffer excessive damage (I hope), and people will be more inclined to respect permissions (I hope) and invite others to get their copy directly from the original creator without forcing and redistributing it as a favor for various friends on other grids (doing it discreetly), which can happen with paid products.
I honestly don't believe this problem will be resolved as long as GOD mode is accessible to everyone. Some grids have denied GOD mode to enforce respect for original creators' content, but these are not popular among users who can get everything they want with GOD mode. They prefer, at the same cost, to obtain regions even in poorly performing grids that allow them to do anything.
Another problem is the backup copies of regions. There have been grids that did not allow the default backup of objects without sufficient permissions, but these grids had no luck or popularity. Meanwhile, those who do not apply such restrictions obviously have more success. Even reloading the OAR on a new grid, the original creator could be permanently lost, creating confusion about who the original creator of the product is and whether the object has been purchased or not.
Therefore, honestly, I think selling on more or less renowned grids is limited to one, two, or ten sales, the time it takes for the product to be unlocked, given away, or loaded into other grids via OAR. All of this, except for Kitely, which has an exceptional system for controlling the "products" leaving its platform, a system that they don't publicly share from what I understand.
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Well maybe I should add, that anyone in this discussion, should not be anti-capitalist or socialist. If they are, and are bitching and moaning about NOT making money off of creations they spent time and worked on, is a piece of garbage with zero stake in this topic because they support and actively pursue free everything, spread the wealth and other Marxist Communist garbage.
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OK I've been away alot lately for both RL and work reasons, so I am late replying to this. There is an answer to this, but it's complicated.
First off, SL was originally created back in 98 to test a theory of whether a digital economy could work. What it evolved into and OpenSim began from was simply, bringing creations in for a social purpose. This is the reason no grid will ever get off the ground because they worked backwards.
Yes SL and Opensim are Glorified Chatrooms. You read that correctly. So we went from AOL chatrooms of A/S/L? To a 3rd version and each wanted to up the other with being more fancy pants or cooler. So instead of a flat avatar face next to text, you could now play dress up and stand around one of the bazillion clubs and your avatar could dance while you chatted and gesturbated.
SL evolved into, offering you a more private space to have that chatroom convo and have sexy time, a free sandbox to create something in which 90% of creations were for avatar enhancements (Fashion, Skin, Hair) or actions (Car, House, Plane). 10% was my cornered market until banned (Fun stuff like farters).
Opensim picked up from this point on, where it wasn't about the economy, it was about freedom and independence of the Gestapo Lindens. Now you can be the god, and yes along with it came the god complexes (Originally dictator sim owners, to full fledged whole grid Stalins).
What is missing here? No focus on the economy. Only the social and drama aspect. It is no longer the primary purpose. Creators will build mostly based on demands and needs. As a builder, scripter, animation creator, texture creator, terraformer, etc. yes I can build ALOT, but no longer will I ever do it for SL. I was glad to cash out my Lindens before the 3 new technology impotent owners bought it, because they kept what little I left in it upon being banned for no reason. No biggie, but they lose.
In Opensim, everything that can be god modded, will be copied and the creator almost never compensated in any way shape or form.
Creations can take anywhere from hours to weeks. Based on FJBShittypants we should all be paid like 20 bucks an hour. Anyone here making that much for their creations? No. But I know alot create for fun. Mostly now that is what I do. I don't expect jack shit from payment.
Kitely has a decent plan and idea. However, another aspect that was mentioned here is the Globit versus PayPal. Well as most of you never read real news, the answer to that question is, if you earn more than $600 per year through PayPal, you will be audited by one of the 87,000 IRS just hired. That is the fact Jack, so a measly 600 bucks, will get you an audit. (I have my own software dev company and I have to follow tax laws and assinine shit like this for my main business.) Globeit, is the unregulated wild west. What happened before with cyber currency when the owners shut it down for months with no reason or answer, leaving thousands unable to cash out, can happen with Globeit. You are damned if you do, and damned it you don't.
Hopefully these 87k IRS agents that have been armed with Glocks and body armor to accompany their pocket protectors and birth control glasses, will be fired in November. I can't say the same for the Euro crowd, but England is the worst and Germany is desperately broke and cracking down looking for money. (Example? Harrassing Schwarzenegger over his watch he put up for a charity auction, for not paying duty, when he flew through Munich). So hopefully, if the IRS agents in the US are shitcanned, the Euros usually follow suit.
As for the DMCA, well it's being abused like crazy. Originally intended and created to protect record labels from stolen pirated music. They arrested a dingbat kid for downloading copyrighted songs. Hell some of these asshole artists should be happy someone listens to their 40 and 50 year old shit. I found this out the hard way when I tried to play for someone the theme from Who's the Man and the song was done first by Ed Lover and Doctor Dree. Not House of Pain. I had to go through hoops, and I got it played it and now a whole generation of Zoomers know the original song. Prior to my getting it it had ZERO downloads. So that fat fuck should thank me for advertising his shitty old work. Kate Bush is suddenly getting money and famous again because a TV show played one of her shitty songs from the mid 80s. She was lucky, they paid for the copyright but there is thousands of forgotten artists and movies because of this DMCA bullshit that is abused by everyone and anyone who files a claim. Every hater, punk wiseass and drama queen DMCA each other out of spite a massive amount of the time.
As for the future of making money with Opensim, good luck. Yes you can host a grid, rent land. You can get tips, you might get someone to buy a dress on Kitely MP. Will it pay your mortgage? Nope.
SL originally was one mans idea about an economy, that built into a team that made it happen and expanded then fell off the cliff of focus. I have been working for a few months personally on something that will generate revenue, but I reserve any revelation because I am one person with limited time. The answer is there for anyone who has studied basic business and economics. People need an incentive to build, and people need an incentive to pay. And that's my horseshit and sauerkraut opinion on this.
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First off, SL was originally created back in 98 to test a theory of whether a digital economy could work. What it evolved into and OpenSim began from was simply, bringing creations in for a social purpose. This is the reason no grid will ever get off the ground because they worked backwards.
Yes SL and Opensim are Glorified Chatrooms. You read that correctly. So we went from AOL chatrooms of A/S/L? To a 3rd version and each wanted to up the other with being more fancy pants or cooler. So instead of a flat avatar face next to text, you could now play dress up and stand around one of the bazillion clubs and your avatar could dance while you chatted and gesturbated.
SL evolved into, offering you a more private space to have that chatroom convo and have sexy time, a free sandbox to create something in which 90% of creations were for avatar enhancements (Fashion, Skin, Hair) or actions (Car, House, Plane). 10% was my cornered market until banned (Fun stuff like farters).
Opensim picked up from this point on, where it wasn't about the economy, it was about freedom and independence of the Gestapo Lindens. Now you can be the god, and yes along with it came the god complexes (Originally dictator sim owners, to full fledged whole grid Stalins).
What is missing here? No focus on the economy. Only the social and drama aspect. It is no longer the primary purpose. Creators will build mostly based on demands and needs. As a builder, scripter, animation creator, texture creator, terraformer, etc. yes I can build ALOT, but no longer will I ever do it for SL. I was glad to cash out my Lindens before the 3 new technology impotent owners bought it, because they kept what little I left in it upon being banned for no reason. No biggie, but they lose.
In Opensim, everything that can be god modded, will be copied and the creator almost never compensated in any way shape or form.
Creations can take anywhere from hours to weeks. Based on FJBShittypants we should all be paid like 20 bucks an hour. Anyone here making that much for their creations? No. But I know alot create for fun. Mostly now that is what I do. I don't expect jack shit from payment.
Kitely has a decent plan and idea. However, another aspect that was mentioned here is the Globit versus PayPal. Well as most of you never read real news, the answer to that question is, if you earn more than $600 per year through PayPal, you will be audited by one of the 87,000 IRS just hired. That is the fact Jack, so a measly 600 bucks, will get you an audit. (I have my own software dev company and I have to follow tax laws and assinine shit like this for my main business.) Globeit, is the unregulated wild west. What happened before with cyber currency when the owners shut it down for months with no reason or answer, leaving thousands unable to cash out, can happen with Globeit. You are damned if you do, and damned it you don't.
Hopefully these 87k IRS agents that have been armed with Glocks and body armor to accompany their pocket protectors and birth control glasses, will be fired in November. I can't say the same for the Euro crowd, but England is the worst and Germany is desperately broke and cracking down looking for money. (Example? Harrassing Schwarzenegger over his watch he put up for a charity auction, for not paying duty, when he flew through Munich). So hopefully, if the IRS agents in the US are shitcanned, the Euros usually follow suit.
As for the DMCA, well it's being abused like crazy. Originally intended and created to protect record labels from stolen pirated music. They arrested a dingbat kid for downloading copyrighted songs. Hell some of these asshole artists should be happy someone listens to their 40 and 50 year old shit. I found this out the hard way when I tried to play for someone the theme from Who's the Man and the song was done first by Ed Lover and Doctor Dree. Not House of Pain. I had to go through hoops, and I got it played it and now a whole generation of Zoomers know the original song. Prior to my getting it it had ZERO downloads. So that fat fuck should thank me for advertising his shitty old work. Kate Bush is suddenly getting money and famous again because a TV show played one of her shitty songs from the mid 80s. She was lucky, they paid for the copyright but there is thousands of forgotten artists and movies because of this DMCA bullshit that is abused by everyone and anyone who files a claim. Every hater, punk wiseass and drama queen DMCA each other out of spite a massive amount of the time.
As for the future of making money with Opensim, good luck. Yes you can host a grid, rent land. You can get tips, you might get someone to buy a dress on Kitely MP. Will it pay your mortgage? Nope.
SL originally was one mans idea about an economy, that built into a team that made it happen and expanded then fell off the cliff of focus. I have been working for a few months personally on something that will generate revenue, but I reserve any revelation because I am one person with limited time. The answer is there for anyone who has studied basic business and economics. People need an incentive to build, and people need an incentive to pay. And that's my horseshit and sauerkraut opinion on this.
It is worth noting that there are laws against doing most of the things everyone is talking about in this discussion. Copying something over from SL (or Kitely) is illegal. You can dress it up and name it Athena, but it is still illegal. Grid owners like those in OSWorld made the CCHOICE not to enforce these laws and let this be the wild west. Also, Gloebits are for the most part, worthless. They are not attached to any real-world value which renders them mostly useless. Again the decision to give The Gloebits any real value wasa decisions made ahead of time. Is this good or bad? That is a long argument, but these ARE are decisions that were put in place. Therefore, despite claims to the contrary, "Never Buy In Open Sim" IS the official stance of OSWord and other grids ...because their decisions support that policy.
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There are laws such as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Most grid owners have a policy that they will respond to DMCA claims. Creators in SL have made the choice to not pursue any such claim.
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*Creators in SL have made the choice to not pursue any such claim.*
I can tell you from experience that is not always exactly the case. I have had conversations directly with to creators in SL who TRIED to pursue DMCA claims in open sim. Second Life, for better or worse, is very quick to assist creators when they have a DMCA case in world. Now that LL is Tilla Inc. they are more than happy to clamp down. And DMCA claims are pretty easy claims to file, IF you know who to file them against. (I think Jupiter explained it much better than me.) Kitely might be different, but OSGrid and most regions in open sim are pretty...uhm..."vague" and "lethargic" when it comes to pursuing IP protections. I say that not as a bad thing or good thing. I freely admit to having an inventory full of stuff that was obviously copied and brought into OS from SL. And god bless! I hate to think what it would be like here without them doing it. I am not taking a side, my comments were simply aimed at addressing the OP's questions about why we have the system we do and why it probably is not going to change anytime soon.
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I can tell you from experience that is not always exactly the case. I have had conversations directly with to creators in SL who TRIED to pursue DMCA claims in open sim. Second Life, for better or worse, is very quick to assist creators when they have a DMCA case in world. Now that LL is Tilla Inc. they are more than happy to clamp down. And DMCA claims are pretty easy claims to file, IF you know who to file them against. (I think Jupiter explained it much better than me.) Kitely might be different, but OSGrid and most regions in open sim are pretty...uhm..."vague" and "lethargic" when it comes to pursuing IP protections. I say that not as a bad thing or good thing. I freely admit to having an inventory full of stuff that was obviously copied and brought into OS from SL. And god bless! I hate to think what it would be like here without them doing it. I am not taking a side, my comments were simply aimed at addressing the OP's questions about why we have the system we do and why it probably is not going to change anytime soon.
Dan Banner in past related how he had to spend weekends sometimes purging content for which DMCA's had been filed, so much that Osgrid was one of the first to block Sacrarium just to stop the flow of DMCA reported content. Osgrid at least was pretty conscientious in removing it and cutting off the flow. I still finding items in Inventory that no longer rezz because at some point it was removed from the grid's asset servers. Other commercial grids followed suit to varying degrees. Second Life on the other hand has had a wealth of copybot Marketplace stores selling contraband for ages but they won't take those down unless there is an actual DMCA filed.
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This could have two reasons.
One, you can't DMCA OpenSim as a whole in one go. You'd have to DMCA everyone who spreads your stolen stuff individually. Since you can't do that, you'd have to DMCA the grids. And OpenSim has got thousands of these, only a dozen or two of which are either idealistic enough to keep illegal content out or have spent at least the last 10 years under a rock. Have fun filing over 3,000 DMCA claims.
Two, probably even more importantly, you have to prove that you've created what has been stolen from you, otherwise anyone could claim something was stolen from them.
There were actual DMCA threats looming over OpenSim in 2015, causing loads of freebie store owners to rip out everything they offered and replaced it with Linda Kellie, just to keep their stores open while keeping the grids they were on from being shut down by the authorities. But the most we actually got was an open letter from Maitreya whose entire in-world shop was circulating in OpenSim as full-perm freebies back then. Some food for thought.
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One, you can't DMCA OpenSim as a whole in one go. You'd have to DMCA everyone who spreads your stolen stuff individually. Since you can't do that, you'd have to DMCA the grids. And OpenSim has got thousands of these, only a dozen or two of which are either idealistic enough to keep illegal content out or have spent at least the last 10 years under a rock. Have fun filing over 3,000 DMCA claims.
Two, probably even more importantly, you have to prove that you've created what has been stolen from you, otherwise anyone could claim something was stolen from them.
There were actual DMCA threats looming over OpenSim in 2015, causing loads of freebie store owners to rip out everything they offered and replaced it with Linda Kellie, just to keep their stores open while keeping the grids they were on from being shut down by the authorities. But the most we actually got was an open letter from Maitreya whose entire in-world shop was circulating in OpenSim as full-perm freebies back then. Some food for thought.
Thanks for sharing that information. It looks like it is not an easy process, but am going to guess that a lot of people, especially newer residents like myself, did not realize it was there at all.
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As an Opensim merchant who makes original content, what little money I make from my Kitely Market store and my Gloebit store go to pay for the tier on my regions with only a little left over for tipping my favorite musical artists and DJs. That enables me to keep creating on the scale I like without having to worry about maintaining a grid of my own. I am deeply grateful for a special group of patrons in Opensim who love my work and support what I do. I couldn't do it without you. I also have an SL Marketplace store and an inworld SL store that also pay the bills there and leaves me a little left over. I try to always remain aware that some are not able to buy my products so I try to keep prices as low as I can and I regularly donate items when things reach me through the grapevine.
As for copybotting, I made a decision back in 2017 when I opened my first OS store that I wasn't going to go down a dark path consumed by the possibility. I don't go searching freebie stores and the like looking for my items unless someone messages me about one of my items they saw somewhere for free or for sale. Even then, I don't assume the worst and try to be polite with people.
As for God-moding, that's just something I have no control over, as Jupiter pointed out, so I don't lose sleep over it. if my stuff ends up everywhere for free then it will be time to close shop and stop creating and move on to any of the other projects I love to work on outside of Opensim, but until that happens I can continue to happily create :-)
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As for copybotting, I made a decision back in 2017 when I opened my first OS store that I wasn't going to go down a dark path consumed by the possibility. I don't go searching freebie stores and the like looking for my items unless someone messages me about one of my items they saw somewhere for free or for sale. Even then, I don't assume the worst and try to be polite with people.
As for God-moding, that's just something I have no control over, as Jupiter pointed out, so I don't lose sleep over it. if my stuff ends up everywhere for free then it will be time to close shop and stop creating and move on to any of the other projects I love to work on outside of Opensim, but until that happens I can continue to happily create :-)
I'm going to speak only to the issue of permissions. Most shops in OS have imported stuff. Whatever permissions the importer imposes on the content is quickly broken. And then too many people put the item in their shop and limit permissions again. Usually this involves making the item no transfer. The shop owners do this in the hope that this will bring them more traffic. This process is then repeated over and over, all by shop owners looking for what I call "unearned traffic." In this case, I gladly make these items full perm, and freely give them away. I earn my traffic by the popularity of the outfits I assemble for the oh HELLO shop. Everything there is full perm.
I'd like to hear a discussion about what is owed to two kinds of creators. One, the creators of original content. Second, the "creators" who import items and do the additional work required to make the items functional in OS. For example, any scripted imported item has scripts done by the importer. There was a saying, at least ten years ago, that if you wanted to make real money in SL, be a scripter for hire. So, in my mind, some level of respect is owed to both kinds of creators, including to the creators of OS scripts.
Not that anyone with give it to them... And I doubt anyone would want to be identified as an importer.
So, how about this. Both types of creators can include a notecard in their vendors, and hope it is passed on. One would say, "Created by..." The other could say, "Scripts thanks to..."
Perhaps even better, if this is possible, is for both kinds of creators to set permissions to at least no modify. Include a script that will detect when permissions are changed and then delete the item. Not being a scripter, I have no idea if this is possible. I suspect that if it were, it would be done by now.
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I'd like to hear a discussion about what is owed to two kinds of creators. One, the creators of original content. Second, the "creators" who import items and do the additional work required to make the items functional in OS. For example, any scripted imported item has scripts done by the importer. There was a saying, at least ten years ago, that if you wanted to make real money in SL, be a scripter for hire. So, in my mind, some level of respect is owed to both kinds of creators, including to the creators of OS scripts.
Not that anyone with give it to them... And I doubt anyone would want to be identified as an importer.
So, how about this. Both types of creators can include a notecard in their vendors, and hope it is passed on. One would say, "Created by..." The other could say, "Scripts thanks to..."
Perhaps even better, if this is possible, is for both kinds of creators to set permissions to at least no modify. Include a script that will detect when permissions are changed and then delete the item. Not being a scripter, I have no idea if this is possible. I suspect that if it were, it would be done by now.
Do these receive creator credit in any way in SL? Don't the creators of animations, textures, gestures, and such, sell these to creators no strings attached?
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I disagree with making something not modify. The reason is that things sometimes break and need to be fixed. I don't know how many times I have gotten something from somewhere and the doors don't work or a plant is floating higher than the rest of it, or not scripted and it needs to be, and so on. Sometimes the thing is no modify and that is when I need to use GM so I can fix it.
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Stuff like groups, friendship and, I guess, listing an item creator, doesn't work very well across grids.
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Friends do work though it may take a couple tries and between each try, one has to delete the contact card and previous friend entry. Only try it on the one or others home grid and be sure to click the confirmation dialogue box on returning to one's home grid, even if it doesn't appear until the next login.
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By HG business ... some years ago..Kittely announced their reasons for that. My intension was just that, that people shouldn't trust a private. ex Linden employee. plus I never understand why so many (especially american), who cant buy good food, invest in VR pixel stuff. I am in this since 2007 SL. This is such a nonsense. Why is all about money always. Gratefully there are grids who run this as a hobby. And this is what OS should all be about! Do create for a hobby (in OS), or let it be.
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And when I create something, or make a cute script, I share with friends / community, and never ask for a price, even when that work takes weeks. And not like "shiny" Luna here etc. This should stay all free for everyone! And not always run for the $$ shit. And here I DO NOT mean her great work. JUST the $$ in the eyes
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If all would just create for a hobby, and wouldnt have always the $$ in their eyes, and share with friends and community who like their stuff (like here at OSW with scripts etc), then god mode, copy viewer and so on would dry out, and 90% of those discussions, hate, and all the other stuff about commercial interest would be gone. There wouldn't exist anymore interest about all that all anymore. I go on further: No more interest in exploding a sim... less hate and , last but not least, less drama
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No one polices it and i personally think that's partly why people rip the creators off on kitely. opensim is not connected to the marketplace in sl but its connected to kitely marketplace in some form or way. I dont get why people would want to rip creators off in kitely, and yes i know they have done it with sl copybotted stuff. But some of us pay good money for things we buy on kitely.
but we al know no one really polices that stuff or its happened so much they get tired of it.
However if people keep ripping off creators, eventually those creators wont make anything new and we will be stuck with old stuff.
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but we al know no one really polices that stuff or its happened so much they get tired of it.
However if people keep ripping off creators, eventually those creators wont make anything new and we will be stuck with old stuff.
I love the kitely market I have found some great things on there. I put any of my kitely items in my kitely folder in my inventory so i am very careful not to share them to anyone. I mean i paid good money for them and honestly i would hope others pay if they want it so bad.
I find it sad how some people just abuse god mode just to get or give away something free and ripping creators off from kitely. I never change owners with godmode on an item. my only use for godmode is if something is wrong with it like i need to edit a script. I generally dont have to do that with any kitely orders though.
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I find it sad how some people just abuse god mode just to get or give away something free and ripping creators off from kitely. I never change owners with godmode on an item. my only use for godmode is if something is wrong with it like i need to edit a script. I generally dont have to do that with any kitely orders though.
Value comes from scarcity. The is no scarcity in open sim as the permission system is unenforceable, leading to unlimited copies of everything. When there is an abundance of things the price goes down. Essentially there is no value in open sim because of this.
God mode is a blessing and a curse. Then there are copy bot viewers.
Removing god mode, blocking OAR's and IAR's will do nothing, and locking your assets to your own grid won't help as long as copy bot viewers are around.
Unless there is a way to fully enforce the permission system everywhere across the grid and eradicate copy bot viewers entirely then there is really no hope for earning money from items in world.
This is likely why the "Never buy in open sim" motto is a thing. There will always be someone giving your item away cheaper or for free somewhere. The person charging money may not have created the item in the first place, and might not have the right to even sell it. So by saying "Never buy in open sim" might protect you from giving money to a thief. Sure the creator makes no money, but neither does the thief.
The permission system is merely a way to keep honest people honest and stop the average Joe from taking a copy of something. If they really want the item they will get it one way or another.
I doubt there is a way to fully lock down permissions at this point, and open sim will remain a free for all. Even Second Life is not safe from copy bot viewers. The whole system is a flawed design that it too easy to circumvent.
Its a bit sad that we have this situation where peoples hard work is not respected and is just passed around as disposable freebie junk. On the other hand we have access to heaps of free stuff to dress our dolly's with.
So with a broken system like we have here, there really is no value in money. As the permission system allows anyone to sell/give away your creations for nothing, then your creations have no monetary value.
We just have to put up with bad meshes with improperly set up LOD's and ridiculous complexity. Thank god for god mode so I can export these horrid meshes and fix them up to make them less terrible.
This is a very hard cycle to get out of now we are in it as fortifying the permission system at this point would be an impossible task.
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God mode is a blessing and a curse. Then there are copy bot viewers.
Removing god mode, blocking OAR's and IAR's will do nothing, and locking your assets to your own grid won't help as long as copy bot viewers are around.
Unless there is a way to fully enforce the permission system everywhere across the grid and eradicate copy bot viewers entirely then there is really no hope for earning money from items in world.
This is likely why the "Never buy in open sim" motto is a thing. There will always be someone giving your item away cheaper or for free somewhere. The person charging money may not have created the item in the first place, and might not have the right to even sell it. So by saying "Never buy in open sim" might protect you from giving money to a thief. Sure the creator makes no money, but neither does the thief.
The permission system is merely a way to keep honest people honest and stop the average Joe from taking a copy of something. If they really want the item they will get it one way or another.
I doubt there is a way to fully lock down permissions at this point, and open sim will remain a free for all. Even Second Life is not safe from copy bot viewers. The whole system is a flawed design that it too easy to circumvent.
Its a bit sad that we have this situation where peoples hard work is not respected and is just passed around as disposable freebie junk. On the other hand we have access to heaps of free stuff to dress our dolly's with.
So with a broken system like we have here, there really is no value in money. As the permission system allows anyone to sell/give away your creations for nothing, then your creations have no monetary value.
We just have to put up with bad meshes with improperly set up LOD's and ridiculous complexity. Thank god for god mode so I can export these horrid meshes and fix them up to make them less terrible.
This is a very hard cycle to get out of now we are in it as fortifying the permission system at this point would be an impossible task.
This is a great discussion, but as an SL mesher I just want to correct misconceptions about the "quality" of mainstream goods being ported over here. The fact is, the quality of a heck of a lot of SL goods, particularly clothing, is merely that it fits into a contemporary fashion style.
A huge amount of SL products use a cheat with LOD levels in the uploaded to falsely seem like its 1 land impact when it should be a lot more. Sure- you can put it on your Sim in SL and have it be 1 prim, but it's still using up the amount of resources both on the server on for your visitors viewers of a much heavier object. OS still counts prims/land impact like the way SL did back in the old days. Most anything you upload on the mesh uploader to here can be one prim , as an experiment you can go and link 24 prim boxes together. You can then use the firestorm "save as collada" function, and then re upload them. Most OS grids including Dreamgrids, it will be one prim.
This brings us to the second thing about secondlife "quality ". Items, especially clothing, tend to be way way way WAY high in triangles. We in OS, due to less people lagging any one Sim, can afford to be a little more relaxed about this. But in SL it really messes things up. People think individually meshed tiny buttons that don't blur when you zoom in on them 200% = "quality mesh". No! It does not. Knowing how to properly mesh and utilize textures would make the same effect.
Why does this happen in SL? Because SL is not the bastion of luxury, original content, and legality you think it is. People- including big name creators- will buy models from CG trader or gumroad and then rerig and retexture them . This isn't necessarily illegal- until you realize this is done regardless of what the license of the mesh is, and what the actual creators thoughts are. As a result, quite a lot of "SL Original Mesh" is not made for an environment like SL, it is meant for rendering as static art in Blender or Daz.
And in fact, a few of the very big creators will use art students from China or the Middle East * who only know that the mesh is going into "a video game"* to make their meshes. There's also much more legal routes, a few people on SL itself will also rent out their services. The "originality" of the mesh is therefor merely about a contract of exclusivity, not "who made what".
So, you will see people in SL turning up their noses at "template mesh" and "amateur mesh" in favour of what they see as "quality, original mesh"- but it is in fact essentially ""Chinese sweatshop mesh" with either mistakes,or techniques meant for static renders being paraded as top quality haute couture !
And that's what makes some of the mesh cartels here funny- you are stealing what is already appropriated labour power! Authentic original SL creators are more like Aaack on here, making often niche goods in small batches. The fashion biggies are at best a team under one uploading avatar, or a sweatshop front.
Don't worry so much, folks. There's not a lot to envy on the other side of the fence. Create what you want here, and don't worry so much about making it like in SL.
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A huge amount of SL products use a cheat with LOD levels in the uploaded to falsely seem like its 1 land impact when it should be a lot more. Sure- you can put it on your Sim in SL and have it be 1 prim, but it's still using up the amount of resources both on the server on for your visitors viewers of a much heavier object. OS still counts prims/land impact like the way SL did back in the old days. Most anything you upload on the mesh uploader to here can be one prim , as an experiment you can go and link 24 prim boxes together. You can then use the firestorm "save as collada" function, and then re upload them. Most OS grids including Dreamgrids, it will be one prim.
This brings us to the second thing about secondlife "quality ". Items, especially clothing, tend to be way way way WAY high in triangles. We in OS, due to less people lagging any one Sim, can afford to be a little more relaxed about this. But in SL it really messes things up. People think individually meshed tiny buttons that don't blur when you zoom in on them 200% = "quality mesh". No! It does not. Knowing how to properly mesh and utilize textures would make the same effect.
Why does this happen in SL? Because SL is not the bastion of luxury, original content, and legality you think it is. People- including big name creators- will buy models from CG trader or gumroad and then rerig and retexture them . This isn't necessarily illegal- until you realize this is done regardless of what the license of the mesh is, and what the actual creators thoughts are. As a result, quite a lot of "SL Original Mesh" is not made for an environment like SL, it is meant for rendering as static art in Blender or Daz.
And in fact, a few of the very big creators will use art students from China or the Middle East * who only know that the mesh is going into "a video game"* to make their meshes. There's also much more legal routes, a few people on SL itself will also rent out their services. The "originality" of the mesh is therefor merely about a contract of exclusivity, not "who made what".
So, you will see people in SL turning up their noses at "template mesh" and "amateur mesh" in favour of what they see as "quality, original mesh"- but it is in fact essentially ""Chinese sweatshop mesh" with either mistakes,or techniques meant for static renders being paraded as top quality haute couture !
And that's what makes some of the mesh cartels here funny- you are stealing what is already appropriated labour power! Authentic original SL creators are more like Aaack on here, making often niche goods in small batches. The fashion biggies are at best a team under one uploading avatar, or a sweatshop front.
Don't worry so much, folks. There's not a lot to envy on the other side of the fence. Create what you want here, and don't worry so much about making it like in SL.
So you have "creators" in OpenSim who whine about freebie store owners god-moding their "creations" and hanging them up in their own stores full-perm.
Only that these "creators" themselves have god-moded post-2019 Sacrarium boutique content, renamed it and replaced the box art.
The Sacrarium "creators", in turn, have illegally exported that content from Second Life. Regardless of how they've acquired it there in the first place.
And the Second Life "creators" have either exploited art students or broken the license of free 3-D downloads. AFAIK, some have even stolen their "creations" from other SL users.
The hilarity.
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Only that these "creators" themselves have god-moded post-2019 Sacrarium boutique content, renamed it and replaced the box art.
The Sacrarium "creators", in turn, have illegally exported that content from Second Life. Regardless of how they've acquired it there in the first place.
And the Second Life "creators" have either exploited art students or broken the license of free 3-D downloads. AFAIK, some have even stolen their "creations" from other SL users.
The hilarity.
Jupiter, SL also OWNS anything and everything uploaded. If you read their terms, this has been being applied since about 2010. It was another reason I held back creating new things. Even your pictures you share with friends, they claim ownership. Fartbook does this as well. You foresake any and all rights, once something is uploaded to SL or Fartbook.
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This is probably one of the best responses I've seen to the whole issue of mesh production and how SL has the 'best' content. I still occasionally go to SL and whilst SL has always been 'laggy' in a way that is rare to find in Opensim, even in busy regions, the mesh load on busy sims in SL really slows things down in terms of viewer performance largely due to the loads imposed by inefficient mesh.
Nice to get the low down on how much mesh content for SL is sourced - I guess that fast fashion for SL is created in a very similar manner as its RL counterpart, by badly exploited sweated labour - stuff to be avoided if at all possible.
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Nice to get the low down on how much mesh content for SL is sourced - I guess that fast fashion for SL is created in a very similar manner as its RL counterpart, by badly exploited sweated labour - stuff to be avoided if at all possible.
A few responses. Kitely made some great decisions to market on the HG. They also made what I feel were bad ones. Restricting purchases through PayPal only and requiring Creators to sell for at least $1. Many of the products sell in SL for a few lindens but on Kitely the same will cost me a minimum of $1 US, which costs me over $1.50 Can. Sorry, not paying that. Like it or not, Kitely creators are in competition with SL prices as to what people are willing to pay for an item. Had they arranged to sell with Gloebits so creators could sell items for less than the minimum US $1, I likely would be a more regular shopper there.
As to God mode, Opensimulator is alpha software and especially the permissions code is a bit funky on the hypergrid. Many creators have issues even on a regular grid in how to set permissions properly because Opensim does not strictly follow SL's methods or how transferring it will wind up. The Permission code has changed on a few occasions in core also so how a permission was supposed to be is not always how it winds up.
Opensim is free and one can run a region for pennies a month on electricity or even just $5 p/m on some cheaper grids. Creators here do not have the expenses they have in SL so I feel its a bit greedy to be asking the same prices one would pay in SL. On Kitely I see creators even selling for more then the typical prices on SL on the excuse that there is less people in Opensim but seemingly ignoring the fact that there is also a lot less competition. I've read it is not unusual in SL for stores to sell less then a 100 copies of an item but they do ok because they have hundreds of items to choose from and are always putting out new innovative content to keep their heads above water. I don't see that here.
On the God Mode again, Grids come and go like clockwork. If I as the owner of the Arielle avatar purchase something from a creator, the license is to the living entity behind Arielle. Since Arielle is on multiple grids, I use the content I have purchased for her where she has an account. Should one of the grids she has an account on close up then I feel I have a right to transfer that content to her on another grid as I own the license, not Arielle as she is just my visual representative. The copyright laws in that regard are somewhat ambiguous but some past grid owners took it upon themselves to go with an interpretation that served themselves rather then their residents. It is the reason I would not touch the new Grids of some past owners with a barge pole. They will do everything in their power to deprive residents of their legally purchased content. Their unpopularity is well deserved.
Much of the issues surrounding copybotted content is too much aimed at SL content whereas the creators of that content have the right and obligation to file DMCA's. I would much rather see the focus being on copybotted content of the original creators in Opensim itself. If one looks at some past grids like Sacrarium, they were not banned by other grids for their SL content but for the content they were distributing from Opensim creators. The SL stuff is competing yes but the plain fact is that even for that content, creators, especially scripters. could do pretty good selling better huds for some of that stuff. I know I certainly would like to see that and would be perfectly willing to pay money for it should they do so. Sure it could be Godded and some will but constant updates and other tricks could easily minimize how many do. For many of us in Opensim there is a convenience factor some of us are willing to pay for as long as it is not exorbitant amounts.
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As to God mode, Opensimulator is alpha software and especially the permissions code is a bit funky on the hypergrid. Many creators have issues even on a regular grid in how to set permissions properly because Opensim does not strictly follow SL's methods or how transferring it will wind up. The Permission code has changed on a few occasions in core also so how a permission was supposed to be is not always how it winds up.
Opensim is free and one can run a region for pennies a month on electricity or even just $5 p/m on some cheaper grids. Creators here do not have the expenses they have in SL so I feel its a bit greedy to be asking the same prices one would pay in SL. On Kitely I see creators even selling for more then the typical prices on SL on the excuse that there is less people in Opensim but seemingly ignoring the fact that there is also a lot less competition. I've read it is not unusual in SL for stores to sell less then a 100 copies of an item but they do ok because they have hundreds of items to choose from and are always putting out new innovative content to keep their heads above water. I don't see that here.
On the God Mode again, Grids come and go like clockwork. If I as the owner of the Arielle avatar purchase something from a creator, the license is to the living entity behind Arielle. Since Arielle is on multiple grids, I use the content I have purchased for her where she has an account. Should one of the grids she has an account on close up then I feel I have a right to transfer that content to her on another grid as I own the license, not Arielle as she is just my visual representative. The copyright laws in that regard are somewhat ambiguous but some past grid owners took it upon themselves to go with an interpretation that served themselves rather then their residents. It is the reason I would not touch the new Grids of some past owners with a barge pole. They will do everything in their power to deprive residents of their legally purchased content. Their unpopularity is well deserved.
Much of the issues surrounding copybotted content is too much aimed at SL content whereas the creators of that content have the right and obligation to file DMCA's. I would much rather see the focus being on copybotted content of the original creators in Opensim itself. If one looks at some past grids like Sacrarium, they were not banned by other grids for their SL content but for the content they were distributing from Opensim creators. The SL stuff is competing yes but the plain fact is that even for that content, creators, especially scripters. could do pretty good selling better huds for some of that stuff. I know I certainly would like to see that and would be perfectly willing to pay money for it should they do so. Sure it could be Godded and some will but constant updates and other tricks could easily minimize how many do. For many of us in Opensim there is a convenience factor some of us are willing to pay for as long as it is not exorbitant amounts.
"The Permission code has changed on a few occasions in core also so how a permission was supposed to be is not always how it winds up."
The best example for this would be that boxes inherit certain permission restrictions from their contents now. A while ago, a full-perm box was always actually full-perm, regardless of the permissions of its contents. This is no longer the case. And so you have lots of sales boxes in older stores that are supposed to be copied but can't be because the permissions of the contents are too limited. Shop owners have to go around and fix loads of boxes and their contents, and they often don't even know they have to.
"On the God Mode again, Grids come and go like clockwork. If I as the owner of the Arielle avatar purchase something from a creator, the license is to the living entity behind Arielle. Since Arielle is on multiple grids, I use the content I have purchased for her where she has an account. Should one of the grids she has an account on close up then I feel I have a right to transfer that content to her on another grid as I own the license, not Arielle as she is just my visual representative."
If OpenSim development had enough capacity, I'd suggest a new feature, namely linking avatars together to one identity. The most basic variant of this would allow you to transfer no-transfer content to your alts. The most advanced one would sync the inventories, at least optionally except for friends and groups. Both cases would also exclude no-export content.
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The best example for this would be that boxes inherit certain permission restrictions from their contents now. A while ago, a full-perm box was always actually full-perm, regardless of the permissions of its contents. This is no longer the case. And so you have lots of sales boxes in older stores that are supposed to be copied but can't be because the permissions of the contents are too limited. Shop owners have to go around and fix loads of boxes and their contents, and they often don't even know they have to.
"On the God Mode again, Grids come and go like clockwork. If I as the owner of the Arielle avatar purchase something from a creator, the license is to the living entity behind Arielle. Since Arielle is on multiple grids, I use the content I have purchased for her where she has an account. Should one of the grids she has an account on close up then I feel I have a right to transfer that content to her on another grid as I own the license, not Arielle as she is just my visual representative."
If OpenSim development had enough capacity, I'd suggest a new feature, namely linking avatars together to one identity. The most basic variant of this would allow you to transfer no-transfer content to your alts. The most advanced one would sync the inventories, at least optionally except for friends and groups. Both cases would also exclude no-export content.
There's no way one could ever make a living on selling stuff in OpenSim like some manage to make a living on selling stuff in Second Life.
First, in SL, you have to pay for just about everything anyway. Making it on only freebies is so difficult it's a challenge. In OpenSim, you can do just about everything without ever paying a penny.
Second, OpenSim has a whole lot fewer users than SL. Even if everyone had money, and everything cost money, you wouldn't make nearly as much.
Third, of these users, only a tiny fraction has in-world money to begin with. They're probably fewer than those who are fully convinced that "Never buy in OpenSim" is an official OpenSim slogan.
Fourth, you'd have to compete with professionally-produced, almost-industrial-grade, premium luxury content stolen from SL.
And fifth, even if you can pull that off quality-wise, someone will god-mode or out-right copybot your stuff and put it into their own freebie store free and no-transfer, renamed and declared their own original creation. And then someone else will god-mode that and offer it free and full-perm.
That said, sometimes god-mode is a blessing, especially for freebies whose creators are no longer around.
For example, something is wrong with a freebie, e.g. it's glow-in-the-dark full-bright because whoever made it had always set their viewer permanently to midday. But that someone hasn't logged in in forever or doesn't respond otherwise or takes any bug report as an ad-hominem attack. And that item is no-modify. Then you can throw it away and try to find an adequate replacement. Or you can god-mode it, turn full-bright off and have something actually useful.
Or you want or have to move to another grid. Of course, you want to take your stuff with you. But some of it is no-transfer, it's very dear to you, and it isn't available anymore anywhere because the only shop that offered it has disappeared. You can either leave it behind and carry on without ever being able to use it again. Or you can god-mode it, make it full-perm for personal use and share it with your new avatar.
Or something is actually supposed to be full-perm, maybe even as per the license notecard inside the item or the sales box. But there's only one shop left offering it. And the owner of that shop decided to make all items in that shop no-transfer so that nobody could build a competing freebie sim from items from this shop. So this item is only available no-transfer although it should be full-perm. Again, you have the choice: Either leave it as it is and watch it vanish when that shop disappears. Or god-mode it back to full-perm and share it.
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First, in SL, you have to pay for just about everything anyway. Making it on only freebies is so difficult it's a challenge. In OpenSim, you can do just about everything without ever paying a penny.
Second, OpenSim has a whole lot fewer users than SL. Even if everyone had money, and everything cost money, you wouldn't make nearly as much.
Third, of these users, only a tiny fraction has in-world money to begin with. They're probably fewer than those who are fully convinced that "Never buy in OpenSim" is an official OpenSim slogan.
Fourth, you'd have to compete with professionally-produced, almost-industrial-grade, premium luxury content stolen from SL.
And fifth, even if you can pull that off quality-wise, someone will god-mode or out-right copybot your stuff and put it into their own freebie store free and no-transfer, renamed and declared their own original creation. And then someone else will god-mode that and offer it free and full-perm.
That said, sometimes god-mode is a blessing, especially for freebies whose creators are no longer around.
For example, something is wrong with a freebie, e.g. it's glow-in-the-dark full-bright because whoever made it had always set their viewer permanently to midday. But that someone hasn't logged in in forever or doesn't respond otherwise or takes any bug report as an ad-hominem attack. And that item is no-modify. Then you can throw it away and try to find an adequate replacement. Or you can god-mode it, turn full-bright off and have something actually useful.
Or you want or have to move to another grid. Of course, you want to take your stuff with you. But some of it is no-transfer, it's very dear to you, and it isn't available anymore anywhere because the only shop that offered it has disappeared. You can either leave it behind and carry on without ever being able to use it again. Or you can god-mode it, make it full-perm for personal use and share it with your new avatar.
Or something is actually supposed to be full-perm, maybe even as per the license notecard inside the item or the sales box. But there's only one shop left offering it. And the owner of that shop decided to make all items in that shop no-transfer so that nobody could build a competing freebie sim from items from this shop. So this item is only available no-transfer although it should be full-perm. Again, you have the choice: Either leave it as it is and watch it vanish when that shop disappears. Or god-mode it back to full-perm and share it.
Yeah its unwise to think you can make a living off selling things in OS but to make a few extra dollars a week or month may just help to cover a few costs. A monthly med you may need, an extra loaf of bread and some milk. As Luna said it helps to cover a few costs she has in world. There are those who are happy to pay for items they want as a way to express their thanks, even if they are few at least they are given more options to do just that. I also understand the reasoning behind using items brought in from sl as I have myself spent thousands of L there, perhaps unwisely, and don't own what i have purchased so I'm not to hung up on using it in OS. My main point is OS is a creators dream and to encourage original content here by paying for it i think is not a bad thing to do if it means some support goes to those creators. Hence I am setting up a Creators mall using Gloebits for now and i may look at doing podex to.
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Most creators in SL are probably fortunate if they cover their SL expenses with what they sell. Relatively few will earn enough to make an RL living from SL sales. I'm not actually sure there is a similar problem with items from the Kitely Market being god moded and then distributed. I've been in Opensim since 2011 so I'm pretty aware of what's going on, and I've been an HG customer of the Kitely Market for about 10 years now. In that time I've seen the growth of pirated mesh content in OS from pretty much zero to the situation we have now, where it's ubiquitous. In all that time I have yet to see items from the Kitely Market distributed for free, and indeed, most in OS seem more than happy to pay for that content. Some of that content will no doubt have god powers used on it , mostly for the kind of reasons you've highlighted, but not so much for redistribution for free, which if it happens, I suspect happens very much under the radar. Also, most content for sale on the KM is reasonably priced, which makes a huge difference, but then creators have much lower overheads than those in SL, where upload costs are considerable and land rental is still a rip-off, even with the reduced tiers of today.
As far as restricting the use of god mode, this is Opensim, and it comes as is, and if you host your own regions on your own hardware you'll have access to god powers. The only way to restrict this would be on grids that don't allow residents to have access to the region server, which many grids don't. But the widespread availability of Dreamgrid and the Diva Distro means that it's relatively trivial to set up and run one's own mini-grid, even if only temporarily and sporadically.
It's interesting though, and I'm not the first to note this, but those who complain the most about 'copybotters' are usually those who are the most prolific purveyors of pirated content. The Kitely Market, on the other hand, hardly ever mentions the issue, though I am sure that they take copyright infringement very seriously.
God powers are extremely useful, and personally I often use them when I come across items I have made that for some reason lack the permissions I would like them to have - it's easy to mess up!
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As far as restricting the use of god mode, this is Opensim, and it comes as is, and if you host your own regions on your own hardware you'll have access to god powers. The only way to restrict this would be on grids that don't allow residents to have access to the region server, which many grids don't. But the widespread availability of Dreamgrid and the Diva Distro means that it's relatively trivial to set up and run one's own mini-grid, even if only temporarily and sporadically.
It's interesting though, and I'm not the first to note this, but those who complain the most about 'copybotters' are usually those who are the most prolific purveyors of pirated content. The Kitely Market, on the other hand, hardly ever mentions the issue, though I am sure that they take copyright infringement very seriously.
God powers are extremely useful, and personally I often use them when I come across items I have made that for some reason lack the permissions I would like them to have - it's easy to mess up!
"In all that time I have yet to see items from the Kitely Market distributed for free"
In a way, some are. Studio Skye is officially present on the Kitely Market with a bunch of products, including the famous mesh beach kit. And yet, you find full-perm Skye mesh beach pieces all over the Hypergrid. However, these aren't god-moded Kitely items, they're copybotted SL items. I'm still wondering whether the Kitely box comes with instructions...
As for my own god mode, I was made estate manager on the sim on which I have my home parcel, and I got god mode access along with it.
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In a way, some are. Studio Skye is officially present on the Kitely Market with a bunch of products, including the famous mesh beach kit. And yet, you find full-perm Skye mesh beach pieces all over the Hypergrid. However, these aren't god-moded Kitely items, they're copybotted SL items. I'm still wondering whether the Kitely box comes with instructions...
As for my own god mode, I was made estate manager on the sim on which I have my home parcel, and I got god mode access along with it.
There are also some Heart Botanicals in circulation from before they were available on the Kitely Market. I as using them, and when I realised that they were legitimately available on the KM I bought them - one of my first purchases there.
I think where SL creators decide to sell legit copies of their creations in the Opensim metaverse there is always going to be the risk that pirated copies will also be available. Good to know that Studio Skye items are available on the KM.
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I think where SL creators decide to sell legit copies of their creations in the Opensim metaverse there is always going to be the risk that pirated copies will also be available. Good to know that Studio Skye items are available on the KM.
Creators of original content should go to SL to sell their creations. Opensim will always be free.
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I don't know how long you've been in OS, but there is no logical reason why OS should be free, apart from the ludicrous claim by those peddling the ludicrous notion that "Don't buy in Opensim, Opensim should be free!". This slogan, as far as I can tell, was started by that purveyor of pirated content, Sacrarium, which is now a pay only grid, set up for the wholesale pirating of SL content. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of buying stuff in Opensim, and though the market is small, and largely limited to the Kitely Market, I'm happy to pay for those items whose creators want some return for their work.
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Girl, you can say whatever, but opensim is not place for sellers looking for a living. Opensim is and will always be free, if you are so desperate for buying stuffs, go to SL, they have a market full of stuffs you can buy.
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Firstly, I'm not desperate to buy stuff, as I said, I am happy to buy stuff where the creators have decided they would like some payment. No-one is twisting your arm to buy anything should you not wish to do so.
Neither you nor I are arbiters of what goes in Opensim, it's a blank canvas that can be used in whatever way someone wants, including to make some money.
Hardly anyone makes a living from sales in SL, and no-one in their right mind expects to make a living out of Opensim, but nonetheless running one's own regions server, or even paying for hosting costs, and I dare say that it's more than feasible that the costs of this are at least partially offset from sales on the Kitely Market, or wherever items are for sale with Globits
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Neither you nor I are arbiters of what goes in Opensim, it's a blank canvas that can be used in whatever way someone wants, including to make some money.
Hardly anyone makes a living from sales in SL, and no-one in their right mind expects to make a living out of Opensim, but nonetheless running one's own regions server, or even paying for hosting costs, and I dare say that it's more than feasible that the costs of this are at least partially offset from sales on the Kitely Market, or wherever items are for sale with Globits
Nah, from SL a lot of people make a living. I know that for a fact.
Opensim will always be free, mark my words.
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Opensim will always be free, mark my words.
I don't think that many "creators" here would make a great deal of money in SL.. SL is very competitive with lots of advancements and great quality, low prim, items. Im not saying all creators are lacking advancement.. but there are a few who are stuck in 2006.
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Then they would use opensim and its resources to learn, I mean, if they really want to profit from their creations.
The thing is that here, in opensim we don't want a S-SL.
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The thing is that here, in opensim we don't want a S-SL.
Kitely is #1 for getting things different and cheap. I think all that want their item to be bought, should use Kitely. Although in saying this, the people selling items. Their grid is built around others free items. Grass, trees, flowers, rocks,etc... Where's the honesty there? When I buy from Kitely, I do not share. But can direct them to Kitely. If it's free to copy inworld, then is free for owner, to do with item, what they want. Just my opinion, don't hate!
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its a HUGE hypocrisy! I see it everywhere! lol.. and Lets face it & be honest.. there are many creators who have not advanced in their craft.. you can get lots of perfectly made quality items for free. Why would I pay $500Digi's for a dress that has flexi and looks like it came from 2006/2007 .. no thanks.. its 2024.. I'll take the free (probably pirated) better made/up-to-date- quality dress every time! I'm also grateful for the free items here in opensim.. I've spent literally thousands of dollars in SL over the past 17 years and continue to buy in SL.. the advancements in creativity there and the quality of the items there are far superior! Just my opinion.. don't hate on me!
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If payware looks like from pre-mesh times, it usually is from pre-mesh times. Put into commercial stores in the early days of Kitely or DigiWorldz when that stuff was still fairly state-of-the-art, and the only competition was the first wave of Linda Kellie creations from 2007/2008.
In most cases, these creators haven't logged into OpenSim in a decade, probably not even into SL, so that they don't even know that their stuff is hopelessly outdated now. They may even have forgotten that they've still got a shop or a whole sim in OpenSim with items for sale, especially if they don't have to pay rent. Bonus points if even the shopping sim owner hasn't logged in in years, so nobody has ever taken into consideration clearing that shop.
If some of them are still active, they should really do a reality check. First, premium mesh clothes in SL are cheaper in real-life money than their layer-and-prim creations. Second, these premium mesh clothes are available in OpenSim for free.
Lastly, yes, there are still a few OpenSim users who refuse to use any mesh. But they've still got a lot of pre-mesh stuff to choose from. Yes, that stuff isn't easy to find, especially if it wasn't made by Linda Kellie. But all this pre-mesh payware isn't actually any easier to find.
Now, layer clothes do have their use since the arrival of BoM, particularly for anything skin-tight. Underwear, lingerie, hosiery, swimwear, latex... Legal BoM bodies like Ruth2 v4 or the BoM version of RuthToo RC#3 depend on them, and besides, they don't clip through anything you wear over them.
But still, you can get more of this for free than you'll probably ever need. Legally even. No need to spend money on it.
Lastly, I guess that many in-world payware vendors don't work anymore anyway because nobody has been around to reset their scripts since at least 2013.
like(3)
In most cases, these creators haven't logged into OpenSim in a decade, probably not even into SL, so that they don't even know that their stuff is hopelessly outdated now. They may even have forgotten that they've still got a shop or a whole sim in OpenSim with items for sale, especially if they don't have to pay rent. Bonus points if even the shopping sim owner hasn't logged in in years, so nobody has ever taken into consideration clearing that shop.
If some of them are still active, they should really do a reality check. First, premium mesh clothes in SL are cheaper in real-life money than their layer-and-prim creations. Second, these premium mesh clothes are available in OpenSim for free.
Lastly, yes, there are still a few OpenSim users who refuse to use any mesh. But they've still got a lot of pre-mesh stuff to choose from. Yes, that stuff isn't easy to find, especially if it wasn't made by Linda Kellie. But all this pre-mesh payware isn't actually any easier to find.
Now, layer clothes do have their use since the arrival of BoM, particularly for anything skin-tight. Underwear, lingerie, hosiery, swimwear, latex... Legal BoM bodies like Ruth2 v4 or the BoM version of RuthToo RC#3 depend on them, and besides, they don't clip through anything you wear over them.
But still, you can get more of this for free than you'll probably ever need. Legally even. No need to spend money on it.
Lastly, I guess that many in-world payware vendors don't work anymore anyway because nobody has been around to reset their scripts since at least 2013.