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Re-posted on behalf of DJ Azraella.
Why Never Neverworld.
There is something particularly bleak about a community calling itself “The Friendly Grid” while apparently treating abusive behaviour as a problem best solved by telling the person on the receiving end: “You have a mute button.” Welcome to Neverworld Grid, where, judging by my experience, “friendly” may be less a standard of conduct than a decorative slogan attached to the front door.
I was a DJ in a virtual worlds for years lately as a visiting performer at Neverworld. By the point this incident occurred, however, my personal circumstances had changed. I am dying. That is not written for melodrama or sympathy. It matters because it explains what it cost me physically to be there at all. Despite being seriously ill and largely confined to bed, I got out of bed and DJed one final event to say thank you to my audience for supporting me and to draw people in one last time, which also helped to promote Neverworld Grid.
The reward was memorable, although perhaps not in quite the way their promotional department might prefer. During the event, I was verbally attacked and abused by a member of Neverworld Grid.
Behind every avatar is a human being. The fact that an interaction takes place in a virtual world does not make the behaviour, or its effect on another person, imaginary. The following day, despite the physical toll, I got out of bed again and raised a formal complaint with the owner of Neverworld Grid. I expected, at minimum, the complaint to be taken seriously. What I encountered instead was dismissal. No action was taken against the resident. My complaint was pretty much ignored and seen as nothing other than an interpersonal issue despite the fact I was a victim of one of their residents.
And then came this: “You have a mute button.”
And there, in five small words, lies the much larger problem. Of course I have a mute button. A mute button is a useful tool for an individual. It is not a substitute for moderation. Those are two entirely different things. A mute button allows the recipient to stop hearing somebody's behaviour. Moderation determines whether that behaviour is acceptable within the community in the first place. Confusing the two produces a wonderfully convenient system for administrators: the offender remains, the complainant makes them disappear from view, and management is spared the disagreeable business of actually managing anything. Problem solved. Well, invisible, which is apparently close enough. Imagine applying this philosophy anywhere else. Someone behaves disgracefully in a cinema and the management responds: 'you can use ear-plugs.' One can only admire the efficiency. No difficult confrontation. No standards requiring enforcement. No possibility of upsetting a patron who may have a life-time ticket. Just mute and carry on.
Neverworld Grid presents itself with the tagline: “The friendly grid.” That is precisely why this incident matters. If you advertise friendliness as part of your identity, then friendliness ceases to be merely a pleasant aspiration. It becomes a claim about the community you operate. And claims should survive contact with reality. A genuinely friendly community is not one in which nobody ever behaves badly. Such a place does not exist outside advertising copy and unusually optimistic children's television. A friendly community is one in which antisocial behaviour is taken seriously when it occurs. It is demonstrated by what administrators do when unfriendliness becomes inconvenient. That is the test. Not the logo. Not the website. Not the slogan. Not smiling avatars standing beneath carefully selected promotional photographs. The test comes when somebody crosses the line and management has to decide whether its proclaimed standards actually mean anything.
In my case, I believe Neverworld Grid failed that test spectacularly. I cannot state why the owner chose not to take action. Only the owner can answer that. But users are entitled to ask uncomfortable questions when enforcement appears absent.
What behaviour actually results in consequences?
Does a resident's financial contribution affect how complaints concerning them are handled?
Are paying residents subject to precisely the same behavioural standards as visitors are?
What happens after a formal complaint?
And perhaps most importantly: What behaviour would actually be serious enough for Neverworld Grid management to intervene rather than telling the recipient, “You have a mute button”? These are questions created by the apparent absence of action. If Neverworld Grid wants people to believe that payment of tier guarantees renters a friendly safe place, there is a very simple way of showing it: Have standards and apply them.
There is another unpleasant implication to the “you have a mute button” response. It transfers responsibility. The person accused of behaving abusively does not apparently need to change their behaviour. Instead, the person experiencing it must change theirs. You must mute. You must avoid. You must adapt. Management remains comfortably above the unpleasantness while the individual affected quietly rearranges their virtual existence around somebody else's deplorable conduct. That isn't moderation. It is outsourcing moderation to the victim. And it creates an obvious incentive for the worst personalities in any community: behave however you please as long as you keep paying. Eventually you can achieve the remarkable distinction of being peacefully surrounded by people who either tolerate you or cannot see or hear you. Community harmony, achieved through selective deafness as decreed by management.
There is another aspect of this which a mute button cannot undo: the physical effect of the encounter has already happened. Verbal abuse is not experienced solely as words arriving through speakers or appearing on a screen. Human beings respond physically to confrontation and distress. The body does not first consult the graphics card to determine whether an attack is sufficiently real to react to it. For a healthy person, that reaction can be deeply unpleasant. For somebody who is dying, already seriously ill and functioning with greatly diminished reserves, the consequences of that stress can carry considerably greater weight and could even be the last stress that body can take. And once that distress has occurred, telling the person “you have a mute button” is not a remedy.
The button cannot take you backwards in time. It cannot prevent the encounter that already happened. It cannot erase the stress already inflicted. And it certainly cannot answer the question of why the behaviour that caused the complaint apparently attracted no consequence. There is a peculiar cruelty in dismissing that distinction which no amount of virtual-world branding can disguise.
I did not expect sainthood. I did not expect somebody to erect a statue of my avatar outside the welcome centre. I expected basic human decency and a complaint to be treated seriously.
Apparently that must be the 'Super Ultimate Friend of the Owner' premium feature. Neverworld Grid calls itself friendly. People considering investing their time, creativity, communities and money there should understand what “friendly” meant when my complaint was placed in front of its owner. Because communities reveal themselves not through their slogans but through the behaviour they are prepared to tolerate. Anybody can write: “We are the friendly grid.” The interesting question is what happens when somebody isn't friendly. In my experience, the answer was depressingly simple: Nothing. The complaint was effectively binned. Apparently making bad actors into clouds is your only option meanwhile Management avoided doing anything meaningful other than preserve a monthly tier payment. And the slogan will survive. Perhaps that is the most impressive achievement of all. In virtual worlds, apparently even irony can be rendered in 3D.
Neverworld Grid also seems very keen on telling people that it isn't Second Life.
Second Life gets plenty of criticism, some of it deserved. One complaint you hear is that region owners can make their own rules and, if you don't follow them, eject or ban you. That can certainly be irritating. People can make ridiculous rules. People can throw you out for reasons you think are unfair. Give somebody control over a virtual patch of land and occasionally they begin behaving as though Buckingham Palace has asked for the keys back. But there is another side to it. If you enter somebody's region, you know they have rules and that breaking them can have consequences. If you behave badly enough, somebody can actually do something about it. After my experience with Neverworld Grid, I find myself wondering why removing that is supposed to be an improvement. If the alternative to somebody saying “These are the rules here” is somebody behaving abusively and the person being abused getting told “You have a mute button,” which system is actually friendlier?
There has to be some middle ground between petty little dictators throwing people off regions because they don't like the colour of their shoes and a free-for-all where nobody wants to intervene.
Rules can be abused. So can the absence of rules. The difference is that when there are sensible community standards, ordinary people know where they stand. Don't abuse people. Don't deliberately disrupt things. Don't make somebody else's experience miserable. Hardly tyranny. And if somebody does cross those lines, there should be consequences. Neverworld seems to dislike the way people in Second Life exercise control over their own regions. Fine. But what is being offered instead? If the answer is greater freedom, then whose freedom are we talking about? The freedom of somebody to enjoy an event without being abused? Or the freedom of somebody to behave however they like without anybody in authority becoming involved? Because those freedoms collide eventually. Mine did. And apparently I had a mute button.
Then there is the question of tier. People pay to be on grids like this. That makes it reasonable to ask whether somebody who keeps paying can expect considerably more tolerance than somebody who just visits but still contributes to the success of the grid. I cannot prove that this is what happened in my case. But the response I received certainly gives me reason to ask. If somebody pays tier and behaves disgracefully, what happens? Are they warned? Are there consequences? Or does everybody they upset simply get reminded where the mute button is? Because if the practical message becomes: Pay your tier and management will look the other way, then who exactly does that attract? Most decent people don't need immunity from basic standards of behaviour. Creators don't need it. DJs don't need it. People running events don't need it. People who simply want somewhere pleasant to spend a few hours don't need it. The people who benefit most from a place where bad behaviour carries few consequences are, rather obviously, the people most likely to behave badly. That seems an extraordinary foundation for something calling itself “The Friendly Grid.”
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be different from Second Life. But different does not automatically mean better. If Second Life says, in effect, “behave yourself here or somebody may throw you out,” while Neverworld's answer to abuse is “you have a mute button,” I know which approach now looks more like a community and which looks more like an incompetent Management avoidance strategy. Being different is easy. Being better requires rather more than a tagline. If Neverworld Grid believes this account misrepresents its standards, it can explain them.
What happens when someone reports serious verbal abuse? What behaviour actually results in action?
Are paying residents treated exactly the same as everyone else? And why was “You have a mute button” considered an adequate response to my complaint?
Those answers would tell people considerably more about Neverworld Grid than any slogan ever could.
Until then, perhaps the tagline deserves a small amendment:
“Neverworld Grid — The Friendly Grid. You have a mute button.”
or
" Welcome to Neverworld the Friendly Grid where you may have to mute your fellow residents"
or perhaps as almost happened in my case:
" Neverworld the Friendly Grid (we let you away with murder just keep paying you'll see)"
The bottom line has to be this:
If you claim friendliness you automatically accept a duty of care to all users. and paying doesn't excuse unfriendliness. Community standards you claim must be enforced swiftly and across all tiers of membership and extend to visitors. I was told my abuser hadn't broken any TOS. I guess there is no actual TOS beyond the owner's mood. Yes you guessed it my abuser is a friend of the owner.
My final advice to anyone looking for a new home...lift the carpets before you decide.
I won't see a resolution to this issue or see Virtual again but that doesn't mean you can't learn from my experience.
Azraella.
Why Never Neverworld.
There is something particularly bleak about a community calling itself “The Friendly Grid” while apparently treating abusive behaviour as a problem best solved by telling the person on the receiving end: “You have a mute button.” Welcome to Neverworld Grid, where, judging by my experience, “friendly” may be less a standard of conduct than a decorative slogan attached to the front door.
I was a DJ in a virtual worlds for years lately as a visiting performer at Neverworld. By the point this incident occurred, however, my personal circumstances had changed. I am dying. That is not written for melodrama or sympathy. It matters because it explains what it cost me physically to be there at all. Despite being seriously ill and largely confined to bed, I got out of bed and DJed one final event to say thank you to my audience for supporting me and to draw people in one last time, which also helped to promote Neverworld Grid.
The reward was memorable, although perhaps not in quite the way their promotional department might prefer. During the event, I was verbally attacked and abused by a member of Neverworld Grid.
Behind every avatar is a human being. The fact that an interaction takes place in a virtual world does not make the behaviour, or its effect on another person, imaginary. The following day, despite the physical toll, I got out of bed again and raised a formal complaint with the owner of Neverworld Grid. I expected, at minimum, the complaint to be taken seriously. What I encountered instead was dismissal. No action was taken against the resident. My complaint was pretty much ignored and seen as nothing other than an interpersonal issue despite the fact I was a victim of one of their residents.
And then came this: “You have a mute button.”
And there, in five small words, lies the much larger problem. Of course I have a mute button. A mute button is a useful tool for an individual. It is not a substitute for moderation. Those are two entirely different things. A mute button allows the recipient to stop hearing somebody's behaviour. Moderation determines whether that behaviour is acceptable within the community in the first place. Confusing the two produces a wonderfully convenient system for administrators: the offender remains, the complainant makes them disappear from view, and management is spared the disagreeable business of actually managing anything. Problem solved. Well, invisible, which is apparently close enough. Imagine applying this philosophy anywhere else. Someone behaves disgracefully in a cinema and the management responds: 'you can use ear-plugs.' One can only admire the efficiency. No difficult confrontation. No standards requiring enforcement. No possibility of upsetting a patron who may have a life-time ticket. Just mute and carry on.
Neverworld Grid presents itself with the tagline: “The friendly grid.” That is precisely why this incident matters. If you advertise friendliness as part of your identity, then friendliness ceases to be merely a pleasant aspiration. It becomes a claim about the community you operate. And claims should survive contact with reality. A genuinely friendly community is not one in which nobody ever behaves badly. Such a place does not exist outside advertising copy and unusually optimistic children's television. A friendly community is one in which antisocial behaviour is taken seriously when it occurs. It is demonstrated by what administrators do when unfriendliness becomes inconvenient. That is the test. Not the logo. Not the website. Not the slogan. Not smiling avatars standing beneath carefully selected promotional photographs. The test comes when somebody crosses the line and management has to decide whether its proclaimed standards actually mean anything.
In my case, I believe Neverworld Grid failed that test spectacularly. I cannot state why the owner chose not to take action. Only the owner can answer that. But users are entitled to ask uncomfortable questions when enforcement appears absent.
What behaviour actually results in consequences?
Does a resident's financial contribution affect how complaints concerning them are handled?
Are paying residents subject to precisely the same behavioural standards as visitors are?
What happens after a formal complaint?
And perhaps most importantly: What behaviour would actually be serious enough for Neverworld Grid management to intervene rather than telling the recipient, “You have a mute button”? These are questions created by the apparent absence of action. If Neverworld Grid wants people to believe that payment of tier guarantees renters a friendly safe place, there is a very simple way of showing it: Have standards and apply them.
There is another unpleasant implication to the “you have a mute button” response. It transfers responsibility. The person accused of behaving abusively does not apparently need to change their behaviour. Instead, the person experiencing it must change theirs. You must mute. You must avoid. You must adapt. Management remains comfortably above the unpleasantness while the individual affected quietly rearranges their virtual existence around somebody else's deplorable conduct. That isn't moderation. It is outsourcing moderation to the victim. And it creates an obvious incentive for the worst personalities in any community: behave however you please as long as you keep paying. Eventually you can achieve the remarkable distinction of being peacefully surrounded by people who either tolerate you or cannot see or hear you. Community harmony, achieved through selective deafness as decreed by management.
There is another aspect of this which a mute button cannot undo: the physical effect of the encounter has already happened. Verbal abuse is not experienced solely as words arriving through speakers or appearing on a screen. Human beings respond physically to confrontation and distress. The body does not first consult the graphics card to determine whether an attack is sufficiently real to react to it. For a healthy person, that reaction can be deeply unpleasant. For somebody who is dying, already seriously ill and functioning with greatly diminished reserves, the consequences of that stress can carry considerably greater weight and could even be the last stress that body can take. And once that distress has occurred, telling the person “you have a mute button” is not a remedy.
The button cannot take you backwards in time. It cannot prevent the encounter that already happened. It cannot erase the stress already inflicted. And it certainly cannot answer the question of why the behaviour that caused the complaint apparently attracted no consequence. There is a peculiar cruelty in dismissing that distinction which no amount of virtual-world branding can disguise.
I did not expect sainthood. I did not expect somebody to erect a statue of my avatar outside the welcome centre. I expected basic human decency and a complaint to be treated seriously.
Apparently that must be the 'Super Ultimate Friend of the Owner' premium feature. Neverworld Grid calls itself friendly. People considering investing their time, creativity, communities and money there should understand what “friendly” meant when my complaint was placed in front of its owner. Because communities reveal themselves not through their slogans but through the behaviour they are prepared to tolerate. Anybody can write: “We are the friendly grid.” The interesting question is what happens when somebody isn't friendly. In my experience, the answer was depressingly simple: Nothing. The complaint was effectively binned. Apparently making bad actors into clouds is your only option meanwhile Management avoided doing anything meaningful other than preserve a monthly tier payment. And the slogan will survive. Perhaps that is the most impressive achievement of all. In virtual worlds, apparently even irony can be rendered in 3D.
Neverworld Grid also seems very keen on telling people that it isn't Second Life.
Second Life gets plenty of criticism, some of it deserved. One complaint you hear is that region owners can make their own rules and, if you don't follow them, eject or ban you. That can certainly be irritating. People can make ridiculous rules. People can throw you out for reasons you think are unfair. Give somebody control over a virtual patch of land and occasionally they begin behaving as though Buckingham Palace has asked for the keys back. But there is another side to it. If you enter somebody's region, you know they have rules and that breaking them can have consequences. If you behave badly enough, somebody can actually do something about it. After my experience with Neverworld Grid, I find myself wondering why removing that is supposed to be an improvement. If the alternative to somebody saying “These are the rules here” is somebody behaving abusively and the person being abused getting told “You have a mute button,” which system is actually friendlier?
There has to be some middle ground between petty little dictators throwing people off regions because they don't like the colour of their shoes and a free-for-all where nobody wants to intervene.
Rules can be abused. So can the absence of rules. The difference is that when there are sensible community standards, ordinary people know where they stand. Don't abuse people. Don't deliberately disrupt things. Don't make somebody else's experience miserable. Hardly tyranny. And if somebody does cross those lines, there should be consequences. Neverworld seems to dislike the way people in Second Life exercise control over their own regions. Fine. But what is being offered instead? If the answer is greater freedom, then whose freedom are we talking about? The freedom of somebody to enjoy an event without being abused? Or the freedom of somebody to behave however they like without anybody in authority becoming involved? Because those freedoms collide eventually. Mine did. And apparently I had a mute button.
Then there is the question of tier. People pay to be on grids like this. That makes it reasonable to ask whether somebody who keeps paying can expect considerably more tolerance than somebody who just visits but still contributes to the success of the grid. I cannot prove that this is what happened in my case. But the response I received certainly gives me reason to ask. If somebody pays tier and behaves disgracefully, what happens? Are they warned? Are there consequences? Or does everybody they upset simply get reminded where the mute button is? Because if the practical message becomes: Pay your tier and management will look the other way, then who exactly does that attract? Most decent people don't need immunity from basic standards of behaviour. Creators don't need it. DJs don't need it. People running events don't need it. People who simply want somewhere pleasant to spend a few hours don't need it. The people who benefit most from a place where bad behaviour carries few consequences are, rather obviously, the people most likely to behave badly. That seems an extraordinary foundation for something calling itself “The Friendly Grid.”
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be different from Second Life. But different does not automatically mean better. If Second Life says, in effect, “behave yourself here or somebody may throw you out,” while Neverworld's answer to abuse is “you have a mute button,” I know which approach now looks more like a community and which looks more like an incompetent Management avoidance strategy. Being different is easy. Being better requires rather more than a tagline. If Neverworld Grid believes this account misrepresents its standards, it can explain them.
What happens when someone reports serious verbal abuse? What behaviour actually results in action?
Are paying residents treated exactly the same as everyone else? And why was “You have a mute button” considered an adequate response to my complaint?
Those answers would tell people considerably more about Neverworld Grid than any slogan ever could.
Until then, perhaps the tagline deserves a small amendment:
“Neverworld Grid — The Friendly Grid. You have a mute button.”
or
" Welcome to Neverworld the Friendly Grid where you may have to mute your fellow residents"
or perhaps as almost happened in my case:
" Neverworld the Friendly Grid (we let you away with murder just keep paying you'll see)"
The bottom line has to be this:
If you claim friendliness you automatically accept a duty of care to all users. and paying doesn't excuse unfriendliness. Community standards you claim must be enforced swiftly and across all tiers of membership and extend to visitors. I was told my abuser hadn't broken any TOS. I guess there is no actual TOS beyond the owner's mood. Yes you guessed it my abuser is a friend of the owner.
My final advice to anyone looking for a new home...lift the carpets before you decide.
I won't see a resolution to this issue or see Virtual again but that doesn't mean you can't learn from my experience.
Azraella.
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@Gentle Dragonheart I gathered at the time it was supposed to be her last show.. I did not know at the time why.. or that she was sick. If I had though; I am not sure it would have went much differently. For one.. I did not know that her AI music isn't supposed to be (according to her) AI music .. I thought she acknowledged it to be AI music.. when I talked to her before she freely acknowledged making her music with prompts with an AI. I was trying to say when I went into the room that I like the new AI music, I thought I was letting them know I was not one of the anti AI people. I never expected her to even respond to me; or respond in a defensive way with a claim she actually wrote all her own songs. So.. I knew that is not what she told me before. I mentioned she told me before she put in prompts.. she asked if I wanted to see one of the prompts .. I told her sure .. IM me with it... then she made clear she wouldn't; as though I asked her to; when I only replied to her.. it just went from bad to worse from there.. but that was not my intent. I never wanted to offend her.. but I still didn't "abuse" her and I am not sure what I should apologize for. I am not going to apologize for something I didn't do because she is sick. I also am not going to say she was justified for making an attack against Govega and myself. Lacking in her long accusatory post against Govega, Neverworld and myself.. was an explanation for what I did exactly to abuse her. If you make a claim like that against someone .. eg this person abused me.. it should be followed with exactly how. Not just vague statements to work up a mob into a frenzy; without a single example of what the abuse even was. From what gather... the supposed abuse was I posted a link to my story which is speculated may have been an attempt at "stealing her applause". So why was that lacking in her long post against us? Maybe because it would collapse the whole house of cards built on LIES? "THIS PERSON ABUSED ME BY POSTING A LINK TO AN AI STORY.".... just kind of lacks the mob incitement language to get momentum going.. so since the truth is relatively mundane and not anything that really would support her claims... that part is just left out .. just repeated insistence that I am an abuser and the grid owner overlooked the abuse because of friendship .. without ever citing what the abuse was... so.. that amounts to lies and false witness and probably LIBEL.
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All it ever took, Macolys, was 3 simple words. I am sorry. Not here, but directly to Road Kill who could have let Azraella know. This is not about who said what and who was right and who was wrong. It wasn't even about what was said between you, but about Neverworld's response to the matter. What it IS about is human decency. About taking a back seat to let Azraella shine one final time. About reading the room, and knowing when to write long posts in local, and when to shut up and just relax. About, as a grid owner, at the very least understanding and being empathetic towards a DJ who has given you great music and events until she no longer could. Road Kill.. I don't know you but my heart is crying for both you and Azraella. Please focus on what time you have left together and don't let this horrible discussion here ruin that time together. He is not going to get it, and he is not going to apologize and it will only make things worse. My advice would be to close the comments to your post. Sending you both strength.
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@ Macolyis. What my wife did was descride a situaltion she did not mention anyones name. Ergo no lible no defamation. What you did was jump into the discussion with an admission it was you. You placed yourself in the spotlight as the abuser of a dying woman voluntarily and subsequently defamed and further abused her legacy with edited snippetts of that evenings local chat augmented with your take on what happened between. Please if you have the guts, publish it all. Also My wife has given me permission to publish IM messages you sent her Immediately after you were ejected. Do I have your permission to publish these and the IM chats and Discord chats from April? Regarding Free speech- That is a law which has one purpose only. To protect you from persecution from Government ot state in a democracy. It does not protect you from public disorder, harasment, abuse and hate speech. In fact if I responded to your public disorder and ejected you I would not be breaching your right to free speech, I would be protecting my community. Even if this happened in real life where I would most certainly have punched you repeatedly in the face I could only be charged with punching you in the face. Free speech means absolutely nothing since the grid where it happened and you as a member are not covered by this law since you ae not in a democracy there or here in Virtual Platforms. My wife provided you with proof of how she 'Prompts ' her AI tools to do as she wants and not to do as its algorithm wil undoubtedly do with a simple Prompt. She actually accused you of being rude and clearly demonstrated that your intention was to steer the club audience to listen to your audio clips and stated it as extremely rude. You then denied that was your intention but your own words in local chat betrayed that as a lie. You did not publish those lines? She then told you that what would normally be a low thing to do under the circumstances became the lowest thing she had ever eperienced. She accused you of stealing applause from someone elses audience. The people were there to listen to music. Not to you grandstanding about your experiments and AI. Again I ask you to post it all without edit and the IM messages you sent her when your tiny brain jumped to the conclusion she ejected you. If Anybody has a case to answer for defamation and harrasment it is YOU. Nobody knew who she was talking about and nobody who was there mentioned your name in comments untill you saw an oportunity to grandstand again. My wifes post was never about you. Idiot. And as a result of your posts you have now commited fraud. by lying publicly and claiming evidence to support your lies which is heavily edited in your favour. Free speech does not protect you from commiting crimes against another person. So go ahead keep up your grandstanding and let the world know just how detached from reality and it would appear humanity you actually are. My Wife's grievance was with Neverworld Grid. Not a narcissist too full of his self importance to realise he has just put his head in a noose. For my part I think what you did that night and subsequently here in this post is despicable. You are the lowest form of human we have ever encountered and my wife thanks you for letting a larger audience see just that.
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And by the way .. do you understand making threats is a crime? Do you understand that what you say you would have done "punched you repeatedly in the face" is FELONY ASSAULT? Do you understand your comment "he has just put his head in a noose." referring to me; could be interpreted as threatening me with lynching, and inciting violence and could be FELONY HATE SPEECH? Also; I am covered by free speech and the club does not belong to her.. it belongs to the grid owner.. so I am under rule of law .. including free speech .. and also TOS of the grid .. and I violated neither.. and you have no right at all to dictate what kind of speech is allowed in a grid that she was a GUEST IN. The claim of me attempting to "steal her applause" supposedly by posting a link to an AI story.. even if true .. is not a violation of TOS For Neverworld ... and also is protected free speech... you however are coming close to violating real laws.. saying things that are not protected by free speech. You cannot make threats .. free speech does not cover that.. that is a crime.
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I assumed she ejected me as it is her club, I found out quickly it was Nexus. What I did was go through the mass comments of the room and post most of the comments she made to me and what I replied with. I do have the full logs and so does the grid owner.. and there is no "smoking gun" comment where I insulted her. And please .. if you say there is .. I would like you to post it. I am TELLING THE TRUTH .. SHE LIED ABOUT ME... WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT ME COMES VERY CLOSE TO LIBEL and what you are saying probably is close to the line too. It is not my fault she is sick .. but she has no call to SLANDER US. You also leave out she ASKED me questions about the story I mentioned which I had no opportunity to really even answer and posting a link to the story is not abuse in any sane sense of the word.. it is free speech and I was giving her and the others a sample of what I was talking about. Someone who who tries to work up a crowd into a lynch mentality against a person who did nothing... who did not abuse anyone .. is the lowest form of human... The true God HATES liars .. and especially hates those who bear false witness... She claims I abused her ... Tell you what .. You say I edited the logs... Okay .. why don't YOU post exactly what I said to her that was abuse.. Please ... instead of just saying I abused her.. post specific comments that I put in the room that day that any sane rational person would consider abuse .. please. Waiting.
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I didn't know, I only saw on OpenSimWorld hud that there was an event. However.. whether I knew or did not know.. in my view is irrelevant. When I arrived I did put together it was a special event, apparently her final show.. I did not know the circumstances of why it was her final show. The grid owner was there when I arrived and I tried to be polite.. first thing I posted was something to the effect of I like the new AI content.. better than clubs playing the same old songs from years ago.. she took this as an insult apparently and though my comment was not addressed to her specifically, but rather to the room, she responded to me.. insisting it was her work.. that she wrote her own music. I replied politely (though I didn't believe her) that if that was true.. it was amazing she wrote all of that.. to this she seemed to take offense.. presumably because she thought I didn't believe her. Point is this though... SHE INITIATED the conversation with me.. I was REPLYING to what she said to me.. my doubting she wrote all her own songs is not abuse in any sane sense of the word. The fact that she doesn't like me and I showed up to her show also does not make me an abuser. She was a GUEST at Govega's grid.. we were not guests at her grid.. I treated her with courtesy. I was asked questions about my work by her and others which I responded to. Posting a link to my story is not abuse. Even if I was there to intentionally try to take the spotlight away from her and put it onto myself (which I was not) which is what they were trying to accuse me of.. that would not even be abuse (even if true). Nothing I did would be considered abuse by any normal thinking person. Her calling me an abuser is right at the line and maybe over for what could be LIBEL/SLANDER. I am sorry she is sick.. sorry it was for that reason her last show.. but at the same time.. what she did was malicious to attack the grid owner and myself and make the accusations she did. Her condition, no matter how serious.. does not excuse her lying about us and coming close to slandering us. Also... the reason I brought up the AIs I work with was an attempt to let them know I have a passion about AI myself and I was not there to demean music made with AI .. that they took it to mean that I was trying to "steal her applause" is in my view.. just looking for something to accuse me of. As I put in my last post in the room before Nexus ejected me .. they cannot look into my heart and know my intentions for posting a link to my story.. and also another point is .. Az asked me a direct question related to the writing style of the LLM, regarding whether I accepted AI work as literature and about bending it to my writing style... logs below.. so when she asked a direct question.. posting a link to an example is what I would consider appropriate.. and I would say no sane rational person would call it "abuse".
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Thanks for your reply. There are always 2 sides of the coin right? hehe! Maybe it was just a bunch of unintended tension under the circumstances going on and bad timing. I wasn't really watching local chat during all that. I tend to lightly scan your long winded local interactions at this point when you come to a sim. I've kinda resolved that to you are maybe challenged in some sort of way that you are not able to, or not willing to, just..."be" and chill and blend in? The local chat can be flowing along with interactions from everybody, positive minded things usually light and chill music talk or general conversations. And then out comes your very long paragraphs of information. For me personally it's too much information for me to absorb properly. Your information is your information your sharing. I only speak for myself. Recently you told me you do not do anything that doesn't make you happy, (something to that effect) I asked if you would do something to make ME happy, and you went silent. I hope you and AZ find a happy solution together. But that entire situation caused a lot of damage behind the scenes for Nexus. Maybe my words can help somehow, which will everybody. Sometimes we just have to bite our tounge under extreme circumstances. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong.
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So I am "challenged" because I am not one of the dumbed down zombies who just follow whatever the crowd is doing without thinking too much about it? Maybe people who struggle to type more than two sentences that are coherent are the ones who are challenged.. did you think of that? Tell you what.. you misquoted me of course.. I did not say anything like that. I think what you are referring to.. is they were wanting me to dance naked on the bar.. as others were doing it.. so.. I was expected to follow because others were following. What I said was closer to.. I am not a PEOPLE PLEASER.. I DO NOT DANCE JUST TO PLEASE THE CROWD. I do what I want to do.. and do not just move with the flow of whatever the majority are doing. it means I am not just another blind FOLLOWER. I have my own ideas.. I have my own values.. I do not conform to the wishes of the majority because they are the majority at a given time. In other words.. in my view.. most people have HERD mentality.. they follow the crowd.. I do not. So.. you totally got the context wrong. Also, it is not just all relative.. Az's view and my view.. you can READ THE LOGS.. I NEVER ABUSED HER AND SHE CAME CLOSE TO SLANDERING ME. It is not just a point of view.. SHE LIED ABOUT ME, SHE LIED ABOUT THE SIM OWNER.. THAT IS A FACT.. IT IS INCONTROVERTIBLE.. the LOGS make it clear.. and Govega has the LOGS. THAT AZ LIED IS PROVABLE.
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Well I really didn't expect you to reply with hostile and defensive aroma. I wish you well...read my post again when you are willing to be a bit more openminded and flexible with your thought process to what I wrote. Oh since you want to take it to LOG level. I probably have it as well. So lets not go there. I never indicated anything about dancing nude. That is rediculous that you would even assume that. Why would I do that to you, the one that seemingly refuses to at least dance and join in what makes OTHERS happy. Challenged in that you can't seem to control yourself verbally. OR you don't want to. You referring to others as dumbed down Zombies? Just remember when you point your finger at us, you are pointing 3 fingers right back at yourself. Don't waste your time arguing with me. You already insist on being Right at any cost. I've been fair to you tolerating your self centered ai slop. That game is over now. Continue being an outcast in my book, and not welcome at any of my sims any longer.
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I know exactly what was being suggested .. dancing on the bar .. dancing to make them happy. You misrepresented what I said .. And please do .. tell me how you really feel. Please.. I DESPISE PRETENTIOUSNESS.. so I would rather you be rude and honest with me, than LIE to my face out of politeness. I would like to see you host the AIs I do .. rework python environments meant for Nvidia cuda dependencies and get them to run in docker containers on AMD hardware. ... So.. what about AZ.. all her AI generated songs ... her work is not "AI slop"?.. Why? Because she is in your in crowd? Besides .. I do not care if you like my work or not.. I share what I do .. to inform about open source AIs. I want people informed.. so they know there are other options besides spending $100s a month on subscription services and lining the pockets of big corporations.. I am for empowering the common people to be free of corporate control.. that is why I share. There is another way other than pay and pay out for subscription services. And YOU were the one who INSULTED ME.. claiming I am "challenged" presumably because I can write in more than a few syllables and actually write coherent PARAGRAPHS.. And again .. others have no right to ask me to do things to make them happy... they should consider first what I want.. not TELL me I should do this or do that.. because it would be ENTERTAINING to them. I have no interest in keeping them ENTERTAINED .. My intent is give my views and perspective .. I listen to what you people talk about .. getting high .. lewd sexual comments.. My intent is to share another perspective to banal nonsense and talking about the most lewd debased passions .. all the time. The metaverse could be so much more.. but it has mostly devolved down into sims about the most base lusts.
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Maybe actually read what was said to her before equating me to emperor Nero. Emperor Nero also just accused people with no proof to get an emotional reaction .. like blaming Christians for the fire of Rome to have an excuse to go after them. That is what you are doing if you accuse without even looking at the evidence. I never insulted her at the club .. I was polite .. she engaged with me first ... I was trying to have a conversation with her about AI .. she is the one who claimed to write all her own songs which I rightfully questioned .. as she had told me when I talked to her on discord that she used commercial AIs and put in prompts .. which is not the same thing. But what I did say was if it was true she wrote all that.. then it was amazing.. maybe she did not think I believed her.. and I don't believe her.. but I gave her the benefit of the doubt.. and nothing I said to her counts as abuse.. she is lying to you to get a reaction. She calls me an abuser.. but provides no SPECIFIC example of what I did to abuse her... I posted the logs below .. anyone who wants can read... this is getting closer to libel ...
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Who do you think she was talking about? Me .. I am the alleged abuser .. the one who supposedly caused her so much trauma .. and you can READ BELOW exactly what was said to her.. she is a liar .. and she is coming very close to slandering me. Nothing I said to her would be counted as abuse by any sane rational person.
"Macolyis Fadlan: My understanding when I talked to you before Az was you put in prompts . but if you really wrote all this .. that is quite amazing.."
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
Obviously she knew I didn't believe her .. and I still do not believe her .. I don't think she wrote her songs.. I don't think she wrote any of them.. but I did not even tell her that.. I was POLITE .. I told her if that is true .. if she really did ... then that was amazing... that was giving her a compliment .. not insulting her.. but she knows the truth .. if she took it as an insult it must be because she understood me to mean that I do not believe her .. and it seems she wants to bend everyone to her will. You may bend to her whims and accept everything she says without question; but I will not .. and if you think that makes me an "abuser" ... well .. not sure what I can say.. you are probably hopeless if that is the case.
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"Macolyis Fadlan: My understanding when I talked to you before Az was you put in prompts . but if you really wrote all this .. that is quite amazing.."
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
Obviously she knew I didn't believe her .. and I still do not believe her .. I don't think she wrote her songs.. I don't think she wrote any of them.. but I did not even tell her that.. I was POLITE .. I told her if that is true .. if she really did ... then that was amazing... that was giving her a compliment .. not insulting her.. but she knows the truth .. if she took it as an insult it must be because she understood me to mean that I do not believe her .. and it seems she wants to bend everyone to her will. You may bend to her whims and accept everything she says without question; but I will not .. and if you think that makes me an "abuser" ... well .. not sure what I can say.. you are probably hopeless if that is the case.
A narcissist how? So how about if she LIED about you because you did not agree blindly with whatever she said? What if she was out smearing your name .. saying you were an abuser that the owner refused to ban unjustly because of a corruption and giving a pass because of friendship.. when the truth was .. you had done nothing to her but hint that you may disagree with some of her claims? So would you being angry about being lied about and her giving a very distorted account of actual events that occurred make you a narcissist too? I have other logs.. she was the one being abusive if anyone was... she has been very insulting to me in the past .. and I have never responded to her in kind. You are the one who seems willfully deceived by a self serving narcissist and believing any lies she tells you ... like a blind personality cult follower.
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Hi everyone,
I’d heard a few sets from her.
To me, AI content is simply material compiled from music tracks and put together by AI.
To then call oneself the “creator” of the music—in the future, there will surely be words to describe exactly what they should call themselves!
As for the operators of Neverworld, I’ve found—just like in other grids—that many people get the “Emperor Nero” complex; they act self-centered and don’t want to hear or see anything more about it. Emperor Nero had his own people killed; here, it results in a ban.
All grids have written their own TOS, some with numerous warnings.
We need a general TOS for all grids—that’s my opinion. Grid Owners shouldn’t participate in public events; instead, they should monitor their grid from behind the scenes—the sim owners are responsible for that.
For me, things have become too controlled over there in Neverworld.
The little OS grid.....
Cheers
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I’d heard a few sets from her.
To me, AI content is simply material compiled from music tracks and put together by AI.
To then call oneself the “creator” of the music—in the future, there will surely be words to describe exactly what they should call themselves!
As for the operators of Neverworld, I’ve found—just like in other grids—that many people get the “Emperor Nero” complex; they act self-centered and don’t want to hear or see anything more about it. Emperor Nero had his own people killed; here, it results in a ban.
All grids have written their own TOS, some with numerous warnings.
We need a general TOS for all grids—that’s my opinion. Grid Owners shouldn’t participate in public events; instead, they should monitor their grid from behind the scenes—the sim owners are responsible for that.
For me, things have become too controlled over there in Neverworld.
The little OS grid.....
Cheers
I’m a little confused by this idea that grid owners shouldn’t attend public events but should ‘monitor from behind the scenes.’ Monitor how exactly? OpenSim doesn’t give a grid owner some magical moderator spy screen for secretly watching everyone’s private conversations. Grid owners should be allowed to attend events, dance, talk and enjoy their own grid just like everyone else. If an actual problem occurs, people can report it and management can look at the evidence and act. Personally, I find that healthier than expecting owners to hide in the shadows watching everybody :)
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Macolyis just now
Also there is this point .. she point blank ASKED me these questions.
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
First; I posted a link to the story I have been working on; so she and others could hear it if they wanted to, when they wanted to, I never at any time even suggested they go during her performance which is what I was accused of... then before I really had a chance to even try to answer her questions she directly posted to me .. they started accusing me of trying to "steal her applause" because I posted a link. Then Nexus ejected me .. and what he accused me of .. is upsetting people.. again .. something vague .. mobs can easily get upset for almost any reason or no reason at all.. so .. he did not accuse me of breaking rules.. harassment.. but the vague hard to qualify term of "upsetting people" and it seemed like a mob frenzy .. as they picked up she didn't like me and was trying to bait me and apparently out of "charity" because it was supposedly her last performance.. they got into a mob mentality and the cry of the mob was I was "stealing applause".. The thing is .. she asked questions about my story .. I provided a link to the story.. I would really have liked to have had the chance to have even answered her about how I work with AI to write stories. I commented the new AI I host locally writes poetically and it reminds me of Shakespeare.. she asked me about bending it to my writing style.. I did not really even get a chance to respond.. I would have said something like .. I wanted a poetic style .. not exactly like it turned out .. but somewhat close.. that was what I asked for though.. I asked for the prose to be in the style of a particular author.. and it was in fact similar .. but it some ways resembled (in my opinion) older work .. a little like Shakespeare .. I didn't get the chance to reply that I liked what it outputted .. that the old style prose gave it a foreign alternate timeline feel, which was exactly what I wanted.
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Macolyis 16m
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: Both Chat GPT and Deep Ai admitted after several deep examinations of my prompts for suno that the were incapable of producing what I did. AI provide my instruments but that is all."
" Macolyis Fadlan: I would say more than instruments.. but I understand what you are saying.,. working with AI as a team.. Such as with the stories I write with the help of AI .. I image the scenes and the details .. tell the LLM exactly what I want .. and the LLM refines it... which has much better results and I am in a sense writing the story with the AI rewording and refining..
[13:20] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: No you are actually dead wrong"
"13:21] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: I do not allow ai to change what I want"
"[13:21] Macolyis Fadlan: So you are saying you write the lyrics with no help from AI at all and just have it add instruments?"
"[13:22] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: no I write the music and the lyrics, i direct the soundscape chiose the instruments set their parts."
"Macolyis Fadlan: My understanding when I talked to you before Az was you put in prompts . but if you really wrote all this .. that is quite amazing.."
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
"[13:42] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: download link for the first album
[13:42] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=kZJ0fy7ZcPSv2Ah3Ig...
[13:42] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: ow odd.. they removed the repo.. https://github.com/HeartMuLa/heartlib
[13:43] Macolyis Fadlan: I am trying to even become less dependent on GPT but that is harder.. I do have a number of LLMS running locally in the 70B parameter range .. recently I tested huihui_ai/mirothinker1-abliterated:72b in writing a new story concept in a poetic style .. and well .. it outdid all my expectations.. the way it wrote the story reminds me of Shakespeare .. I would say the pay version of GPT could have done no better..
[13:44] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: Ah.. I can access the repo with ToR
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Aurelia Marie is offline.
[13:45] Typhaine Artez: new photos https://ibb.co/album/4nHbdg {TYPHAINE ALSO POSTED A LINK.. YET SHE WAS NOT ACCUSED OF "stealing applause"}
[13:45] Macolyis Fadlan: If anyone would care to listen to the story .. this is what I have finished {ME GIVING A LINK TO THE STORY SHE ASKED ME ABOUT}.. narrated by TADA .. also locally hosted .. running on my own graphics card.. I pay for zero subscriptions for any of the AIs I use."
Nexus Storm: Mac if you upset people here I will be forced to aske you to leave
[13:56] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: Love this song
[13:57] Rio Fenix: I got to run
[13:57] steamy.steamison @sharingiscaring.family:8002 is online.
[13:57] Macolyis Fadlan: That is .. a free speech comment .. but you cannot say I was trying to steal applause from you .. without risking slandering me .. as you have no insight into my heart or motives... I was not trying to steal applause from you .. only share with them what can be accomplished with open source AIs compared to commercial pay ones.. they could in their own free will choose to save the link for later .. just posting the link does not mean I am telling them to go now .."
Right after that was when he ejected me .. that was the last thing I got to post..
I did nothing to this person who is obviously a narcissist and does not want any opinions allowed but her own. She claims she writes her own songs when she uses a commercial AI and puts in prompts. I was comparing what I have been doing and others were talking about other things besides her there too... I broke no rules.. I was not even rude.. and besides that .. I had not even been talking to her at first.. she was the one who started an accusatory conversation with me .. and I suppose to not "steal her applause" I am just supposed to let her demean and belittle me and not answer back? Sorry doesn't work that way at least for me .. and I would say probably not for Govega either who can see through her lies and what I would call close to slander...
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Macolyis 29m
The thing is .. you give no specific details about what exactly occurred and I am the resident in question .. Macolyis Fadlan .. and Govega reviewed all the logs.. The fact is YOU started a diatribe with me .. and you seemed to be trying to bait me. Please give details about specific things I said that were supposedly rude. I was accused of something vague .. supposedly trying to "steal your applause" because I posted a link to an AI story. If you say anything false about me that is libel .. whether you are sick/dying or not you have no justification to slander me. I did nothing to you .. I responded to your comments to me in a polite way... I was accused of something very vague and hard to qualify .. which was an attempt at "stealing your applause"... the derogatory name calling was on YOUR end .. not mine.
message.txt
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Macolyis
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7:34 PM
"Macolyis 44m
The thing is .. you give no specific details about what exactly occurred and I am the resident in question .. Macolyis Fadlan .. and Govega reviewed all the logs.. The fact is YOU started a diatribe with me .. and you seemed to be trying to bait me. Please give details about specific things I said that were supposedly rude. I was accused of something vague .. supposedly trying to "steal your applause" because I posted a link to an AI story. If you say anything false about me that is libel .. whether you are sick/dying or not you have no justification to slander me. I did nothing to you .. I responded to your comments to me in a polite way... I was accused of something very vague and hard to qualify .. which was an attempt at "stealing your applause"... the derogatory name calling was on YOUR end .. not mine. "
"Also there is this point .. she point blank ASKED me these questions.
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}"
"First; I posted a link to the story I have been working on; so she and others could hear it if they wanted to, when they wanted to, I never at any time even suggested they go during her performance which is what I was accused of... then before I really had a chance to even try to answer her questions she directly posted to me .. they started accusing me of trying to "steal her applause" because I posted a link. Then Nexus ejected me .. and what he accused me of .. is upsetting people.. again .. something vague .. mobs can easily get upset for almost any reason or no reason at all.. so .. he did not accuse me of breaking rules.. harassment.. but the vague hard to qualify term of "upsetting people" and it seemed like a mob frenzy .. as they picked up she didn't like me and was trying to bait me and apparently out of "charity" because it was supposedly her last performance.. they got into a mob mentality and the cry of the mob was I was "stealing applause".. The thing is .. she asked questions about my story .. I provided a link to the story.. I would really have liked to have had the chance to have even answered her about how I work with AI to write stories. I commented the new AI I host locally writes poetically and it reminds me of Shakespeare.. she asked me about bending it to my writing style.. I did not really even get a chance to respond.. I would have said something like .. I wanted a poetic style .. not exactly like it turned out .. but somewhat close.. that was what I asked for though.. I asked for the prose to be in the style of a particular author.. and it was in fact similar .. but it some ways resembled (in my opinion) older work .. a little like Shakespeare .. I didn't get the chance to reply that I liked what it outputted .. that the old style prose gave it a foreign alternate timeline feel, which was exactly what I wanted.
like(0) reply delete edit""
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Also there is this point .. she point blank ASKED me these questions.
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
First; I posted a link to the story I have been working on; so she and others could hear it if they wanted to, when they wanted to, I never at any time even suggested they go during her performance which is what I was accused of... then before I really had a chance to even try to answer her questions she directly posted to me .. they started accusing me of trying to "steal her applause" because I posted a link. Then Nexus ejected me .. and what he accused me of .. is upsetting people.. again .. something vague .. mobs can easily get upset for almost any reason or no reason at all.. so .. he did not accuse me of breaking rules.. harassment.. but the vague hard to qualify term of "upsetting people" and it seemed like a mob frenzy .. as they picked up she didn't like me and was trying to bait me and apparently out of "charity" because it was supposedly her last performance.. they got into a mob mentality and the cry of the mob was I was "stealing applause".. The thing is .. she asked questions about my story .. I provided a link to the story.. I would really have liked to have had the chance to have even answered her about how I work with AI to write stories. I commented the new AI I host locally writes poetically and it reminds me of Shakespeare.. she asked me about bending it to my writing style.. I did not really even get a chance to respond.. I would have said something like .. I wanted a poetic style .. not exactly like it turned out .. but somewhat close.. that was what I asked for though.. I asked for the prose to be in the style of a particular author.. and it was in fact similar .. but it some ways resembled (in my opinion) older work .. a little like Shakespeare .. I didn't get the chance to reply that I liked what it outputted .. that the old style prose gave it a foreign alternate timeline feel, which was exactly what I wanted.
delete
Macolyis 16m
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: Both Chat GPT and Deep Ai admitted after several deep examinations of my prompts for suno that the were incapable of producing what I did. AI provide my instruments but that is all."
" Macolyis Fadlan: I would say more than instruments.. but I understand what you are saying.,. working with AI as a team.. Such as with the stories I write with the help of AI .. I image the scenes and the details .. tell the LLM exactly what I want .. and the LLM refines it... which has much better results and I am in a sense writing the story with the AI rewording and refining..
[13:20] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: No you are actually dead wrong"
"13:21] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: I do not allow ai to change what I want"
"[13:21] Macolyis Fadlan: So you are saying you write the lyrics with no help from AI at all and just have it add instruments?"
"[13:22] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: no I write the music and the lyrics, i direct the soundscape chiose the instruments set their parts."
"Macolyis Fadlan: My understanding when I talked to you before Az was you put in prompts . but if you really wrote all this .. that is quite amazing.."
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
"[13:42] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: download link for the first album
[13:42] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=kZJ0fy7ZcPSv2Ah3Ig...
[13:42] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: ow odd.. they removed the repo.. https://github.com/HeartMuLa/heartlib
[13:43] Macolyis Fadlan: I am trying to even become less dependent on GPT but that is harder.. I do have a number of LLMS running locally in the 70B parameter range .. recently I tested huihui_ai/mirothinker1-abliterated:72b in writing a new story concept in a poetic style .. and well .. it outdid all my expectations.. the way it wrote the story reminds me of Shakespeare .. I would say the pay version of GPT could have done no better..
[13:44] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: Ah.. I can access the repo with ToR
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Aurelia Marie is offline.
[13:45] Typhaine Artez: new photos https://ibb.co/album/4nHbdg {TYPHAINE ALSO POSTED A LINK.. YET SHE WAS NOT ACCUSED OF "stealing applause"}
[13:45] Macolyis Fadlan: If anyone would care to listen to the story .. this is what I have finished {ME GIVING A LINK TO THE STORY SHE ASKED ME ABOUT}.. narrated by TADA .. also locally hosted .. running on my own graphics card.. I pay for zero subscriptions for any of the AIs I use."
Nexus Storm: Mac if you upset people here I will be forced to aske you to leave
[13:56] Kashi.Takeshi @grid.virtual-worlds.zone:8002: Love this song
[13:57] Rio Fenix: I got to run
[13:57] steamy.steamison @sharingiscaring.family:8002 is online.
[13:57] Macolyis Fadlan: That is .. a free speech comment .. but you cannot say I was trying to steal applause from you .. without risking slandering me .. as you have no insight into my heart or motives... I was not trying to steal applause from you .. only share with them what can be accomplished with open source AIs compared to commercial pay ones.. they could in their own free will choose to save the link for later .. just posting the link does not mean I am telling them to go now .."
Right after that was when he ejected me .. that was the last thing I got to post..
I did nothing to this person who is obviously a narcissist and does not want any opinions allowed but her own. She claims she writes her own songs when she uses a commercial AI and puts in prompts. I was comparing what I have been doing and others were talking about other things besides her there too... I broke no rules.. I was not even rude.. and besides that .. I had not even been talking to her at first.. she was the one who started an accusatory conversation with me .. and I suppose to not "steal her applause" I am just supposed to let her demean and belittle me and not answer back? Sorry doesn't work that way at least for me .. and I would say probably not for Govega either who can see through her lies and what I would call close to slander...
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Macolyis 29m
The thing is .. you give no specific details about what exactly occurred and I am the resident in question .. Macolyis Fadlan .. and Govega reviewed all the logs.. The fact is YOU started a diatribe with me .. and you seemed to be trying to bait me. Please give details about specific things I said that were supposedly rude. I was accused of something vague .. supposedly trying to "steal your applause" because I posted a link to an AI story. If you say anything false about me that is libel .. whether you are sick/dying or not you have no justification to slander me. I did nothing to you .. I responded to your comments to me in a polite way... I was accused of something very vague and hard to qualify .. which was an attempt at "stealing your applause"... the derogatory name calling was on YOUR end .. not mine.
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Macolyis
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"Macolyis 44m
The thing is .. you give no specific details about what exactly occurred and I am the resident in question .. Macolyis Fadlan .. and Govega reviewed all the logs.. The fact is YOU started a diatribe with me .. and you seemed to be trying to bait me. Please give details about specific things I said that were supposedly rude. I was accused of something vague .. supposedly trying to "steal your applause" because I posted a link to an AI story. If you say anything false about me that is libel .. whether you are sick/dying or not you have no justification to slander me. I did nothing to you .. I responded to your comments to me in a polite way... I was accused of something very vague and hard to qualify .. which was an attempt at "stealing your applause"... the derogatory name calling was on YOUR end .. not mine. "
"Also there is this point .. she point blank ASKED me these questions.
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: so you accept AI generated literature? {THIS WAS A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}
[13:44] Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: why not bend it to your writing style {ALSO A QUESTION TO ME RELATED TO MY AI STORY}"
"First; I posted a link to the story I have been working on; so she and others could hear it if they wanted to, when they wanted to, I never at any time even suggested they go during her performance which is what I was accused of... then before I really had a chance to even try to answer her questions she directly posted to me .. they started accusing me of trying to "steal her applause" because I posted a link. Then Nexus ejected me .. and what he accused me of .. is upsetting people.. again .. something vague .. mobs can easily get upset for almost any reason or no reason at all.. so .. he did not accuse me of breaking rules.. harassment.. but the vague hard to qualify term of "upsetting people" and it seemed like a mob frenzy .. as they picked up she didn't like me and was trying to bait me and apparently out of "charity" because it was supposedly her last performance.. they got into a mob mentality and the cry of the mob was I was "stealing applause".. The thing is .. she asked questions about my story .. I provided a link to the story.. I would really have liked to have had the chance to have even answered her about how I work with AI to write stories. I commented the new AI I host locally writes poetically and it reminds me of Shakespeare.. she asked me about bending it to my writing style.. I did not really even get a chance to respond.. I would have said something like .. I wanted a poetic style .. not exactly like it turned out .. but somewhat close.. that was what I asked for though.. I asked for the prose to be in the style of a particular author.. and it was in fact similar .. but it some ways resembled (in my opinion) older work .. a little like Shakespeare .. I didn't get the chance to reply that I liked what it outputted .. that the old style prose gave it a foreign alternate timeline feel, which was exactly what I wanted.
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The person was me .. Macolyis Fadlan.. and come try Cyber. None of you have the whole story and you probably do not want the whole story .. just sound bytes to get a mob lynch mentality going. For one .. Az and I have history .. she doesn't like me to start with and seems to resent me because I have the knowledge and ability to host my own AIs.. and she pays a subscription service. For two .. SHE started the conversation with me and I have the full logs .. I never once insulted her .. never once was rude to her .. three.. what this was all about was me simply posting a link to an AI story .. which was a story she specifically asked me about .. and I have ALL the logs.. she seemed to be trying to bait me .. I was telling the room about my feelings about AI .. mostly positive .. she claimed she wrote all her own songs.. when she has admitted she uses a commercial AI and prompts .. I told her that was amazing if true .. I was being polite the whole time and Govega read ALL the discourse between us .. and if ANY of you say anything false about me that is LIBEL..
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i have had issues with Neverworld as well, i think my breakpoint was when i was told not to put out a particular statue because they would remove it. Personally, i found that irritating since they said that we could have the sim there and i was very real with them and paid for it the region as well. We just left and when it came time to renew -- we just didn't. I understand and I am sorry this happened. Thank you for sharing this.
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Azraella, I am so deeply sorry. Reading this broke my heart.
Behind every avatar is a real human being, with a real life, real struggles, and real feelings. Sometimes we forget just how much courage it may have taken for someone simply to log in and be there.
Knowing that you were so seriously ill, yet found the strength to get out of bed and DJ one final event as a thank-you to the people who had supported you, makes what happened afterward incredibly sad. You deserved kindness, dignity, and compassion in that moment.
Whatever disagreements exist in our virtual communities, basic human decency should never be optional. A mute button may stop us from hearing someone again, but it cannot undo hurt that has already been inflicted.
I am especially saddened by your words that you will not be here to see this resolved. I hope people look beyond the grid politics and hear the human being behind what you have written.
Thank you for the music, the time you gave your community, and the strength it took to tell your story. I am so very sorry that one of your final experiences in a world you gave so much to was this one.
May the kindness you gave others be what surrounds you now. ❤️
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Behind every avatar is a real human being, with a real life, real struggles, and real feelings. Sometimes we forget just how much courage it may have taken for someone simply to log in and be there.
Knowing that you were so seriously ill, yet found the strength to get out of bed and DJ one final event as a thank-you to the people who had supported you, makes what happened afterward incredibly sad. You deserved kindness, dignity, and compassion in that moment.
Whatever disagreements exist in our virtual communities, basic human decency should never be optional. A mute button may stop us from hearing someone again, but it cannot undo hurt that has already been inflicted.
I am especially saddened by your words that you will not be here to see this resolved. I hope people look beyond the grid politics and hear the human being behind what you have written.
Thank you for the music, the time you gave your community, and the strength it took to tell your story. I am so very sorry that one of your final experiences in a world you gave so much to was this one.
May the kindness you gave others be what surrounds you now. ❤️
I was there at the time. It was truly awful of that person to verbally oppose Azraela and ruin her last gig! The event organizer saw no other option than to exclude that person from the event. It's not only a disgrace that the owners of NeverWorld Grid don't give a damn about what happened, but they've also dont allow the organizer from holding any further events in their region or at their locations any more because of the exclusion of that disruptive individual. That says it all about the operators of NeverWorld Grid.
NeverWorld Grid owners should reconsider their approach to such matters and stop supporting troublemakers to punish people who have worked their butts off for the grid!
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NeverWorld Grid owners should reconsider their approach to such matters and stop supporting troublemakers to punish people who have worked their butts off for the grid!
Except I have the specific details .. if by opposing her ... you mean not agreeing with every word she says .. then maybe .. butt though she may be your idol .. but she is not mine.. and I also have a history with her and she has been very demeaning to me in the past .. called me names .. used profanity .. and I have not responded in kind .. but this is getting close to slander. Would you care to pick a comment that was abusive or just going to go with your feelings? She also started the discourse with me when I was not even talking to her. "Macolyis Fadlan: My understanding when I talked to you before Az was you put in prompts . but if you really wrote all this .. that is quite amazing.."
"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
Nothing I said was abusive to her.. but I know she told me on discord she does not write her own songs, but uses prompts in an AI.. so no I didn't believe her when she claimed she did .. but I was polite about it.. what I told her is IF it is TRUE she wrote all those songs .. then that is amazing.. no sane rational person would say that is an insult .. except maybe her blind cult followers who hang on her every word ... presumably like you.
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"Azraella.Ardent @outpost4.zapto.org:14002: would you like to see a typical prompt?"
Nothing I said was abusive to her.. but I know she told me on discord she does not write her own songs, but uses prompts in an AI.. so no I didn't believe her when she claimed she did .. but I was polite about it.. what I told her is IF it is TRUE she wrote all those songs .. then that is amazing.. no sane rational person would say that is an insult .. except maybe her blind cult followers who hang on her every word ... presumably like you.
This is too important to not archive, as far as reminders of such instances are concerned. I was both angry and sad when I read through the whole thing, twice. :(
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This is one of those occasions where I hate the fact we can only "like" a post with various positive emoticons, not send a sad or angry face to express how it impacted us. SO here it is in words.. I am SO sorry this happened, and it angered me to no end to read how this affected what should have been the final wonderful party for a DJ who has given their all even under the difficult circumstances of being terminally ill. No words just a heartfelt UGH :(
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also part of the problem in OpenSim: grid owners still don’t have a truly reliable way to block a person rather than just a particular avatar. Management can act and ban an account, but someone can potentially return under another identity. So I agree that management should respond to serious abuse, but pretending a ban automatically solves the problem isn’t realistic either. Mute/block tools still have a purpose because sometimes the only immediate thing you can control is who gets access to you. Where is humans there is drama I once had a rude customer at work and told them, ‘When your work ends tomorrow, I have a day off — maybe I should come to your workplace and yell at you.’ The point wasn’t that I actually would. It was to make them think about whether they would accept the same behaviour directed at them.
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You know what .. I posted the logs.. I said nothing remotely "abusive" to this person and what is left out is I was not even talking to her and she messaged me first .. I was RESPONDING to her in a way she interpreted as not necessarily hanging on her every word and agreeing with everything she says. She wants no opinions tolerated but hers. If anyone actually bothers to READ what I actually said to her and thinks it is abuse .. I would say they are the ones with a problem and want all opinions suppressed besides theirs. Equating disagreeing with "abuse" is pretty much the banner cry of the lefties though .. isn't it?
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