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Breaking news because OSgrid officials never post here:
OSgrid is going to charge for attached regions if you've got more than one.
* One region is always free (unless you don't have one that's a 2x2 at most).
* Each region beyond that one is $1/month.
* What counts is how many regions you're running at the same time. So if you've got five regions, but you never have more than two online at a time, only these two count.
* The billing for region hosters will be different, the price will be the same.
EDIT for those who don't read the comments:
A var counts as 1 region. Even a 16x16 var counts as 1 region. It won't cost $255/month, but only $1/month.
If it's your "first" region (whichever one you declare your "first" region), it's only free if it's a single region or a 2x2 var. So if you have at least one single region or 2x2 var, but you also have bigger vars, declare one of your single regions or 2x2 vars your "first" region.
OSgrid is going to charge for attached regions if you've got more than one.
* One region is always free (unless you don't have one that's a 2x2 at most).
* Each region beyond that one is $1/month.
* What counts is how many regions you're running at the same time. So if you've got five regions, but you never have more than two online at a time, only these two count.
* The billing for region hosters will be different, the price will be the same.
EDIT for those who don't read the comments:
A var counts as 1 region. Even a 16x16 var counts as 1 region. It won't cost $255/month, but only $1/month.
If it's your "first" region (whichever one you declare your "first" region), it's only free if it's a single region or a 2x2 var. So if you have at least one single region or 2x2 var, but you also have bigger vars, declare one of your single regions or 2x2 vars your "first" region.
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I did remembered that when i had host regions to Metropolis grid when they started charging it and i took my regions down and did survived without my regions as homeless. The currency that converted the amount sucks like $1.00 US and i will be paying like $1.43 each.. I also host three single regions for three people too in osgrid would that mean i pay $3.00 for 3 regions? i don't want to say anything negative about it but that how people struggle in today society financially. :(
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$2.00. One single region or 2x2 is free.
That is, unless the admins change their minds about charging $1 for vars of any size.
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That is, unless the admins change their minds about charging $1 for vars of any size.
First the actual meeting. It has been advertised on the login screen for the past month. On the day there were 190 users online. Regardless of what statistics say, we can assume that this is OSgrid's active user base. Not active avatars but real people.
Osgrid's server costs are $1,001/month.
So the question is: are the costs too high for the number of people involved? There is no denying that us "virtuals" are a dying breed and as our numbers go down, server costs are going up. So we find ourselves on a luxury cruise liner with only a handful of passengers. You don't need me to tell you that this is not financially viable in the long term.
I have been discussing a payment plan with admin for more than 2 months. The solution is not what I recommended so don't blame me! But what I can tell you is that $1 VARs is not what Umberrock intended and has come about because Dan was not up to speed with his intentions.
[11:36 AM] dan banner: a var is 1 region
(one region and therefore $1 whatever the size).
[11:38 AM] Umberrock 404: after 512 x 512 is considered 2 regions (i think he meant 4?)
So which is it? Obviously Dan and Umber are not on the same page which led to Unadecal Masala's comment: "you don't seem to have all your ducks in a row yet".
This was confirmed by:
[11:49 AM] dan banner: orion we are still working out some details with vars
In other words nothing is chiselled out in stone yet.
I don't think $1 regions is a viable long term solution. Its kind of "peeing in your pants to stay warm for a while".
Obviously OSgrid needs to generate income in order to survive. The best way would be to replace the hosts making money off their backs with their own hosting service. But that won't happen because a member of staff has his own hosting service and it would be bad for his business. Conflict of interests.
So, until the ducks get themselves lined up, sit back and enjoy the suspense...
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Osgrid's server costs are $1,001/month.
So the question is: are the costs too high for the number of people involved? There is no denying that us "virtuals" are a dying breed and as our numbers go down, server costs are going up. So we find ourselves on a luxury cruise liner with only a handful of passengers. You don't need me to tell you that this is not financially viable in the long term.
I have been discussing a payment plan with admin for more than 2 months. The solution is not what I recommended so don't blame me! But what I can tell you is that $1 VARs is not what Umberrock intended and has come about because Dan was not up to speed with his intentions.
[11:36 AM] dan banner: a var is 1 region
(one region and therefore $1 whatever the size).
[11:38 AM] Umberrock 404: after 512 x 512 is considered 2 regions (i think he meant 4?)
So which is it? Obviously Dan and Umber are not on the same page which led to Unadecal Masala's comment: "you don't seem to have all your ducks in a row yet".
This was confirmed by:
[11:49 AM] dan banner: orion we are still working out some details with vars
In other words nothing is chiselled out in stone yet.
I don't think $1 regions is a viable long term solution. Its kind of "peeing in your pants to stay warm for a while".
Obviously OSgrid needs to generate income in order to survive. The best way would be to replace the hosts making money off their backs with their own hosting service. But that won't happen because a member of staff has his own hosting service and it would be bad for his business. Conflict of interests.
So, until the ducks get themselves lined up, sit back and enjoy the suspense...
Maybe what Umberrock meant was to charge by length of a var instead of by area. So an 8x8 would be $8 and not $64. Or anything larger than a 2x2 is $2 which, by the way, would still be cheaper than Metropolis was.
Even Umberrock should know that charging $1 for each standard region would chase away almost everyone. OSgrid, which used to be the largest of all grids for years, recently surpassing even Second Life in landmass, would end up a medium-sized grid at best with nothing left but the official sims and a few single regions or small vars.
Renting an 8x8 in the Wolf Territories would be cheaper than attaching one to OSgrid, even without the costs of running/hosting it, regardless of prim count. I could see 8x8s be moved to the Wolf Territories. Many others would give up their sims entirely because they simply couldn't afford them anymore.
I'm not even sure if all staff would agree to this. Foxx Bode, for example, is staff, too. AFAICS, he owns 25 standard regions (four singles, three 2x2, one 3x3). With one free region, that'd be $24/month or $288/year. With one free sim up to 2x2 as promised by Dan, that'd still be $21/month or $252/year. I guess he wouldn't easily agree with payment per prim load either; just look at his Red Dragon Nite Club which is mostly pre-mesh and blistering with single prims. Go there when it's online, it takes a few minutes to rez.
$1 per standard region won't happen. All of OSgrid's staff ought to know that'd be suicidal.
Now, Dan is the boss. He's the head honcho. OSgrid is his grid. And Umberrock has just lost his position as a mod after his history of racist harassment was revealed. Which, by the way, was one reason why many users steered clear of OSgrid entirely, something that ruined the reputation of the whole grid. So how much influence is Umberrock allowed to have on Dan?
On the other hand, if one staff member has managed for OSgrid's entire business model to be built around his own business...
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Even Umberrock should know that charging $1 for each standard region would chase away almost everyone. OSgrid, which used to be the largest of all grids for years, recently surpassing even Second Life in landmass, would end up a medium-sized grid at best with nothing left but the official sims and a few single regions or small vars.
Renting an 8x8 in the Wolf Territories would be cheaper than attaching one to OSgrid, even without the costs of running/hosting it, regardless of prim count. I could see 8x8s be moved to the Wolf Territories. Many others would give up their sims entirely because they simply couldn't afford them anymore.
I'm not even sure if all staff would agree to this. Foxx Bode, for example, is staff, too. AFAICS, he owns 25 standard regions (four singles, three 2x2, one 3x3). With one free region, that'd be $24/month or $288/year. With one free sim up to 2x2 as promised by Dan, that'd still be $21/month or $252/year. I guess he wouldn't easily agree with payment per prim load either; just look at his Red Dragon Nite Club which is mostly pre-mesh and blistering with single prims. Go there when it's online, it takes a few minutes to rez.
$1 per standard region won't happen. All of OSgrid's staff ought to know that'd be suicidal.
Now, Dan is the boss. He's the head honcho. OSgrid is his grid. And Umberrock has just lost his position as a mod after his history of racist harassment was revealed. Which, by the way, was one reason why many users steered clear of OSgrid entirely, something that ruined the reputation of the whole grid. So how much influence is Umberrock allowed to have on Dan?
On the other hand, if one staff member has managed for OSgrid's entire business model to be built around his own business...
i have never said this stop deforming all i have said the first region is limited in size for no abuse in var region and after when you paid 1 usd you play with the sim you wanna without any limit! stop said stupidity and read all doc proper
!! Assets change read here => https://osgrid.org/migration_assets.pdf
Regions change read here => https://www.osgrid.online/news/change-storage-fees/
Thanks you.
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!! Assets change read here => https://osgrid.org/migration_assets.pdf
Regions change read here => https://www.osgrid.online/news/change-storage-fees/
Thanks you.
Could we have this in intelligible English please? If you struggle with English, write it in your mother tongue and use Google Tranlate to translate it to English. It does a fair to excellent job these days.
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It’s pretty funny to be called a racist when I’m not white—I’m actually of mixed heritage from several countries... Also, Dan isn't the grid owner; he’s the president of a non-profit, and for the record, I’m the vice-president—like it or not. As for what you think? I couldn't care less. I know my own worth, and I get way more done in a day than you ever could. So, it’s easy to criticize the only person who’s actually busted their ass for OSGrid for over a decade while everyone else just sleeps on the job, right? :p Anyway, kisses, trolls. ;)
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It's not just white people who can be racist. Racism is predicated on power, and while marginalised communities and individuals lack power their power to influence is also marginalised. All that changes as soon as those communities and indivuduals gain significant amounts of power. Once a community or indivudual is capable of weilding power, that power is subject to abuse, which is the same dynamic that allows racism to exist in the first place. The ability to misuse power in a racist way might be limited in some circumstaces, but it's still there, and is still just as toxic.
The fact that your skin is a different colour is immaterial, it is your position in the pecking order that counts in this context.
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The fact that your skin is a different colour is immaterial, it is your position in the pecking order that counts in this context.
If you knew even a tenth of what I actually do in real life, both for myself and for the benefit of others without distinction, you would probably understand that the reality is far more complex than a simple edited or modified text.
Suzi, with all due respect, I sincerely invite you to look beyond the surface before passing judgment on someone. It would be far more appropriate to take the time to genuinely look into a person's background, actions, and intentions, or simply contact the person concerned directly, rather than drawing conclusions from content taken out of context.
Unfortunately, your comments give the impression that some people on this website are more interested in discrediting or discouraging anyone who is actually trying to accomplish something than in making an effort to understand what they are doing. That does not seem to reflect your apparent level of intelligence, which, judging from some of your comments, seems considerably greater than the conclusions you are drawing here.
I therefore strongly encourage you to exercise more perspective and discernment before making accusations or definitive judgments about someone you clearly do not know.
Furthermore, this website has been reported to the relevant European authorities regarding concerns about compliance with the GDPR. The matter is now being handled through the appropriate channels, and any further action will be determined by the competent authorities.
Finally, a formal complaint has also been filed concerning Morning Glory, including allegations relating to the use and production of documents that I believe to be false. Since legal proceedings have now been initiated, these matters will be addressed through the appropriate legal channels.
I therefore prefer that everyone stick to verifiable facts, documented evidence, and official procedures rather than personal attacks, speculation, or hasty judgments.
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Suzi, with all due respect, I sincerely invite you to look beyond the surface before passing judgment on someone. It would be far more appropriate to take the time to genuinely look into a person's background, actions, and intentions, or simply contact the person concerned directly, rather than drawing conclusions from content taken out of context.
Unfortunately, your comments give the impression that some people on this website are more interested in discrediting or discouraging anyone who is actually trying to accomplish something than in making an effort to understand what they are doing. That does not seem to reflect your apparent level of intelligence, which, judging from some of your comments, seems considerably greater than the conclusions you are drawing here.
I therefore strongly encourage you to exercise more perspective and discernment before making accusations or definitive judgments about someone you clearly do not know.
Furthermore, this website has been reported to the relevant European authorities regarding concerns about compliance with the GDPR. The matter is now being handled through the appropriate channels, and any further action will be determined by the competent authorities.
Finally, a formal complaint has also been filed concerning Morning Glory, including allegations relating to the use and production of documents that I believe to be false. Since legal proceedings have now been initiated, these matters will be addressed through the appropriate legal channels.
I therefore prefer that everyone stick to verifiable facts, documented evidence, and official procedures rather than personal attacks, speculation, or hasty judgments.
I was actually speaking in a general sense, and adressing your claim that you couldn’t possibly be racist because you aren’t white. Where I used the word 'your' should more properly be ' a person's', and 'in a context such as this'. It was very late at night. I apologise if you took the comment to be aimed at you personally.
If you are referring to my comment as ‘edites or modified tesxt’ you are incorrecrt. They are all my own words, and AI was nowhere in sight.
I am aware that the comment is very generalised and that is a weakness. However, I stand by the fundamentals of my argument that oppression is largely about the possession of power and its misuse. Also, I was not contributing to the hearsay about you on this site as I am not aware of the facts, but I was direclty addressing your claim that you cannt be racist because you are not white. Though most racism is perpetrated by white people in western societies due to the power relationships in them.
I do have some, albeit limited. understanding of the situation having been subject to some prejudice and attempts at belitlement due to what could be deemed ethicity, even though I am white. (And my experince is more suppression rather than oppression) I know this is not anything like the kind of prejuduce and abuse experienced by other groups in society, but it has given me something of an insight however limited, and certainly enough to challenge racism and prejudice where I am able.
I’m not partucularly interested in the whys and wherefores of atttempted OpenSimWorld flame wars these days. I have in the past on occasion waded in, and have also been subject to more than my fair share of castigation from those empty vesssels who are prepared to pile on but yet who seem completely incapable of basic English comprehension, let alone making logical sense in a coherent manner – which among first-language English speakers, is somewhat worrying.
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If you are referring to my comment as ‘edites or modified tesxt’ you are incorrecrt. They are all my own words, and AI was nowhere in sight.
I am aware that the comment is very generalised and that is a weakness. However, I stand by the fundamentals of my argument that oppression is largely about the possession of power and its misuse. Also, I was not contributing to the hearsay about you on this site as I am not aware of the facts, but I was direclty addressing your claim that you cannt be racist because you are not white. Though most racism is perpetrated by white people in western societies due to the power relationships in them.
I do have some, albeit limited. understanding of the situation having been subject to some prejudice and attempts at belitlement due to what could be deemed ethicity, even though I am white. (And my experince is more suppression rather than oppression) I know this is not anything like the kind of prejuduce and abuse experienced by other groups in society, but it has given me something of an insight however limited, and certainly enough to challenge racism and prejudice where I am able.
I’m not partucularly interested in the whys and wherefores of atttempted OpenSimWorld flame wars these days. I have in the past on occasion waded in, and have also been subject to more than my fair share of castigation from those empty vesssels who are prepared to pile on but yet who seem completely incapable of basic English comprehension, let alone making logical sense in a coherent manner – which among first-language English speakers, is somewhat worrying.
Popcorn and energy drinks Thirza, this is going to take stamina!
Since a region's size is determined by the dimensions in the regions.ini file, the OSgrid Police are going to be very busy checking that the 1,218 var regions are in fact the size that is being paid for. Therefore a flat rate for ALL regions makes more sense.
But a flat rate for regions is like:
Basic accounts = no regions
Premium accounts = regions
Ok then, lets quit the messing about with a $1/region each month. Ridiculous.
Premium Accounts $10/month unlimited regions.
100 region owners x $10 = $1,000
Oh wait, the server costs were $1,001/m. Dang! anybody got $1?
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Since a region's size is determined by the dimensions in the regions.ini file, the OSgrid Police are going to be very busy checking that the 1,218 var regions are in fact the size that is being paid for. Therefore a flat rate for ALL regions makes more sense.
But a flat rate for regions is like:
Basic accounts = no regions
Premium accounts = regions
Ok then, lets quit the messing about with a $1/region each month. Ridiculous.
Premium Accounts $10/month unlimited regions.
100 region owners x $10 = $1,000
Oh wait, the server costs were $1,001/m. Dang! anybody got $1?
tu es un cas social Poppy vraiment, fidèle à toi même après avoir cracher sur sabi pendant des années et avoir tirer profits de ses serveurs gratuitement tu vas t'en prendre à moi car j'ai fais le système, alors déjà le système est approuvé via l'ensemble du board et il a été créer à la demande du board alors cracher tous votre venin sur moi mais si je quitte osgrid vous pouvez dire tous bye osgrid car il va aller droit dans un mur soyons réaliste !
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OSgrid doesn't offer free regions. It doesn't offer ANY land.
If you want land in OSgrid, you have to host it yourself. On a computer at your home, on a rented Web server, whatever. Then you can attach this region to OSgrid.
This is in stark contrast to most other grids where you can rent regions that are hosted by the grid.
Currently, attaching regions to OSgrid is free. (You still have to pay for hosting the region, of course, either for the webserver or for the electricity, the landline and technically also the hardware if you host it at home.)
What will change is that OSgrid will charge money for attaching regions, just like Metropolis used to.
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If you want land in OSgrid, you have to host it yourself. On a computer at your home, on a rented Web server, whatever. Then you can attach this region to OSgrid.
This is in stark contrast to most other grids where you can rent regions that are hosted by the grid.
Currently, attaching regions to OSgrid is free. (You still have to pay for hosting the region, of course, either for the webserver or for the electricity, the landline and technically also the hardware if you host it at home.)
What will change is that OSgrid will charge money for attaching regions, just like Metropolis used to.
Metro only did that at the end, and afaik it didn't go great for them -that was like one or two years before they shut down -if I remember correctly
Ofc, they always rented land -but that's a different matter. :)
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Ofc, they always rented land -but that's a different matter. :)
Metro had plans to charge €10 for attaching a sim and even announced them; it used to be €3. That wasn't too far away from what other grids charged for a standard region hosted by them. But then, Metro also asked for €2 to verify avatars.
I guess the only reason why this didn't happen was because the Metro admins lost all interest in Metro before they could make this plan reality. At this point, verification wasn't possible anymore either.
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I guess the only reason why this didn't happen was because the Metro admins lost all interest in Metro before they could make this plan reality. At this point, verification wasn't possible anymore either.
When Osgrid first started out way back when, your avatar would bend backwards from wonky physics. If you tried to cross regions your head would explode.
It has come a long way~ That being said I have always wondered why this was not set up before now, perhaps because it was a testing grid but even back than you had people who rented land out on Osgrid for money but paid nothing to Osgrid for the land or the grid to be maintained.
I personally get fab traffic monthly on Osgrid, better than on other grids or a Grid of my own. In my own personal situation all charging a dollar for a region does is makes me drop the guy whos charging 100 a year and hosting it myself....LOL.
Its Time Osgrid made some cash off the people who have been making a killing off hosting regions. Sorry.........
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It has come a long way~ That being said I have always wondered why this was not set up before now, perhaps because it was a testing grid but even back than you had people who rented land out on Osgrid for money but paid nothing to Osgrid for the land or the grid to be maintained.
I personally get fab traffic monthly on Osgrid, better than on other grids or a Grid of my own. In my own personal situation all charging a dollar for a region does is makes me drop the guy whos charging 100 a year and hosting it myself....LOL.
Its Time Osgrid made some cash off the people who have been making a killing off hosting regions. Sorry.........
Indeed,,, how many people are profiting off of OSgrid and NOT giving the Main grid something back. I can think of a FEW entities who will provide your hosting but you need an avatar on OSgrid to access the region. Land has never been a problem for OSgrid, asset mismanagement is their undoing. It got so bad I had to move to a standalone. Nothing is more irritating than having the desire to craft something - grid down for maintenance, the computer running the region I want to build is 2 feet away from me but OSgrid is the gatekeeper... no thanks.
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And since we are talking about the OSGrid community, there is one other thing I would really like to see reconsidered, and that is LBSA Plaza.
In my opinion, LBSA should seriously rethink the way the Plaza welcomes people. A community meeting place should actually feel like a community meeting place. When someone arrives, say hello, make them feel welcome, maybe ask where they came from or what they are looking for. It doesn't have to be forced or fake, just a simple human welcome can make a huge difference.
At the moment, the atmosphere can feel rather cold when you arrive. You land, nobody says anything, you look around, and sometimes it feels more like you have entered a place where you are being watched rather than welcomed. That is not the impression a public community plaza should give.
I also think the role of greeters needs to be looked at. A greeter should be neutral. Their job should be to welcome visitors, help them, answer questions and perhaps point them towards interesting regions or events. It should not become a position where personal likes and dislikes determine who gets to stay and who gets shown the door. I have heard several stories from people I personally consider reliable about visitors being removed because someone simply didn't like them. I wasn't there for every incident, so I won't pretend I know every detail, but if enough people independently have the same experience, perhaps it is worth looking into.
And then there is the whole question of rules. Rules are fine, of course. Every community needs some. But when a place gradually becomes known more for what you are NOT allowed to do than for what you CAN do, perhaps it is time to take a step back and ask what the actual purpose of the place is.
Maybe LBSA doesn't need more rules. Maybe it needs more community.
Why not have greeters who genuinely welcome everyone, regardless of whether they are old residents or complete newcomers? Why not have regular community events, music, themed evenings, newcomer tours, "come and meet the community" gatherings, or even volunteers who can help people discover what OpenSim has to offer?
Make the Plaza somewhere people WANT to return to.
Because honestly, sometimes I think LBSA Plaza could use a complete change of atmosphere. Perhaps even a new name would be appropriate.
LBSA Monastery has a certain ring to it. 😂
Enter quietly, behave yourself, don't touch that, don't do this, don't do that, and whatever you do, don't annoy the monks.
But seriously, I would much rather see LBSA become a genuinely warm and open community hub. A place where people land and immediately feel that somebody is happy they arrived.
That would do far more for OSGrid than another sign telling people what they are not allowed to do.
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In my opinion, LBSA should seriously rethink the way the Plaza welcomes people. A community meeting place should actually feel like a community meeting place. When someone arrives, say hello, make them feel welcome, maybe ask where they came from or what they are looking for. It doesn't have to be forced or fake, just a simple human welcome can make a huge difference.
At the moment, the atmosphere can feel rather cold when you arrive. You land, nobody says anything, you look around, and sometimes it feels more like you have entered a place where you are being watched rather than welcomed. That is not the impression a public community plaza should give.
I also think the role of greeters needs to be looked at. A greeter should be neutral. Their job should be to welcome visitors, help them, answer questions and perhaps point them towards interesting regions or events. It should not become a position where personal likes and dislikes determine who gets to stay and who gets shown the door. I have heard several stories from people I personally consider reliable about visitors being removed because someone simply didn't like them. I wasn't there for every incident, so I won't pretend I know every detail, but if enough people independently have the same experience, perhaps it is worth looking into.
And then there is the whole question of rules. Rules are fine, of course. Every community needs some. But when a place gradually becomes known more for what you are NOT allowed to do than for what you CAN do, perhaps it is time to take a step back and ask what the actual purpose of the place is.
Maybe LBSA doesn't need more rules. Maybe it needs more community.
Why not have greeters who genuinely welcome everyone, regardless of whether they are old residents or complete newcomers? Why not have regular community events, music, themed evenings, newcomer tours, "come and meet the community" gatherings, or even volunteers who can help people discover what OpenSim has to offer?
Make the Plaza somewhere people WANT to return to.
Because honestly, sometimes I think LBSA Plaza could use a complete change of atmosphere. Perhaps even a new name would be appropriate.
LBSA Monastery has a certain ring to it. 😂
Enter quietly, behave yourself, don't touch that, don't do this, don't do that, and whatever you do, don't annoy the monks.
But seriously, I would much rather see LBSA become a genuinely warm and open community hub. A place where people land and immediately feel that somebody is happy they arrived.
That would do far more for OSGrid than another sign telling people what they are not allowed to do.
I agree with you that Lbsa needs greeters. Good, helpful, competent greeters. Ideally enough to have at least one or two around all the time.
But for starters, they must not be official staff. In particular, they must not have mod power. They could report to mods, but they must not be able to act as mods and then misuse their power.
The advantage of this would be that if a new avatar is welcomed by a greeter and offered help, and at the same time, a power-tripping mod kicks and bans this avatar, it wouldn't be OSgrid as a whole that looks bad.
Also, Lbsa would need a whole lot of them. It should have greeters present 24 hours, even if greeters won't always have the time to pay attention to Lbsa for, what, eight hours at a time. Ideally, it'd be so many that no schedule would be needed.
But even Second Life has trouble finding greeters AFAIK. And Second Life has still got some 40,000-50,000 MAUs. OSgrid has got some 200 MAUs, judging from how many attended or tried to attend the event on Saturday. And they're probably busy enough building, hoarding freebies or partying.
I've just paid the old OSgrid Welcome Station a visit, by the way. I don't know if you know it; it was built as a place where new avatars would rez for the first time, and where they could learn the ropes without distractions, much unlike at Lbsa.
According to the notecard I've automatically received, written by Warin Cascabel in March this year, OSgrid does have a concept of volunteer greeters. They can be called by clicking a bell. And apparently, it's the OSgrid Welcome Station rather than Lbsa where they're intended to hang around and wait for newbies.
I guess they actually used to have quite a few volunteer greeters.
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But for starters, they must not be official staff. In particular, they must not have mod power. They could report to mods, but they must not be able to act as mods and then misuse their power.
The advantage of this would be that if a new avatar is welcomed by a greeter and offered help, and at the same time, a power-tripping mod kicks and bans this avatar, it wouldn't be OSgrid as a whole that looks bad.
Also, Lbsa would need a whole lot of them. It should have greeters present 24 hours, even if greeters won't always have the time to pay attention to Lbsa for, what, eight hours at a time. Ideally, it'd be so many that no schedule would be needed.
But even Second Life has trouble finding greeters AFAIK. And Second Life has still got some 40,000-50,000 MAUs. OSgrid has got some 200 MAUs, judging from how many attended or tried to attend the event on Saturday. And they're probably busy enough building, hoarding freebies or partying.
I've just paid the old OSgrid Welcome Station a visit, by the way. I don't know if you know it; it was built as a place where new avatars would rez for the first time, and where they could learn the ropes without distractions, much unlike at Lbsa.
According to the notecard I've automatically received, written by Warin Cascabel in March this year, OSgrid does have a concept of volunteer greeters. They can be called by clicking a bell. And apparently, it's the OSgrid Welcome Station rather than Lbsa where they're intended to hang around and wait for newbies.
I guess they actually used to have quite a few volunteer greeters.
Welcome Station is in no way an official arrival region. It was in the past, but today it is kept online solely to preserve the history and work of the former admins.
Once again, you should not speak about things or their context without actually knowing them. Welcome Station has become a debug region: when LBSA goes down, it is simply used as a backup solution. Nothing more.
Out of respect for its creator, it was also decided to keep it online.
Once again, you are talking about OSGrid without actually knowing how it works or knowing its history. Should I really have to spend thousands of hours documenting or justifying every decision made by Dan or the other OSGrid administrators over the past 12 years?
What is even worse is that you allow yourself to judge a grid that you have never actually been active on.
Please, if you want to judge, first do something concrete with your own hands on OpenSim, instead of pretending to be an expert on a site that itself is not even legitimate.
Thank you.
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Once again, you should not speak about things or their context without actually knowing them. Welcome Station has become a debug region: when LBSA goes down, it is simply used as a backup solution. Nothing more.
Out of respect for its creator, it was also decided to keep it online.
Once again, you are talking about OSGrid without actually knowing how it works or knowing its history. Should I really have to spend thousands of hours documenting or justifying every decision made by Dan or the other OSGrid administrators over the past 12 years?
What is even worse is that you allow yourself to judge a grid that you have never actually been active on.
Please, if you want to judge, first do something concrete with your own hands on OpenSim, instead of pretending to be an expert on a site that itself is not even legitimate.
Thank you.
You have to remember: Those who complain the loudest would be those who want ZERO connection to their real life so they can effect general chaos and drama without any trails leading back to them, also the paranoid will complain as their real life information will need to be used to pay the 1$ fee. In other thoughts, s3 storage by amazon will be faster but it will also fall over about once a month, meaning osgrid is headed for a new frontier, trouble with a capital T.
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I was actually at the OSGrid meeting, so I prefer to base my opinion on what was actually said there rather than on all the speculation that is already flying around.
Personally, I don't think the new $1 per month fee for additional regions is something to get overly dramatic about. One region remains free, and every additional region costs $1 per month. A VAR counts as one region, regardless of its size, and that was clearly stated during the meeting. So no, an 8x8 or even a 16x16 VAR suddenly costing the equivalent of dozens of regions is not what is happening.
I also think we need to be realistic about the fact that running a large grid, maintaining servers, storage and an asset system costs money. Donations are apparently no longer covering everything, so OSGrid is looking for a more predictable way to cover those costs. I don't find that unreasonable. Whether they manage the money and infrastructure well enough is another question, and I think it is perfectly fair to keep an eye on that.
And please, can we stop blaming Trump for everything? LOL. Someone in the discussion suggested that the change is because of Trump and the financial situation in the US, but I was at the meeting and that was certainly not presented as the reason. The discussion was much more about operating costs, server capacity, donations and the need for a more reliable source of income. So unless someone has actual evidence connecting the two, I would leave Trump out of this one.
Does that mean I think OSGrid is perfect? Absolutely not. They have had their problems, and there are legitimate concerns about reliability, the asset server and how things are managed. A small fee doesn't magically make those problems disappear.
But let's keep some perspective here. One dollar a month for an additional region is still ridiculously cheap compared with what people pay for regions on many other grids, and certainly compared with Second Life. If this relatively small contribution helps keep OSGrid running and allows them to improve their infrastructure, I personally don't see it as the end of the world.
I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me. If someone doesn't want to pay, that's their choice. If people decide to move elsewhere, that's their choice too. I'm simply saying that after actually being present at the meeting, I don't see the announcement as the catastrophe some people are already making it out to be.
Let's see how it actually works in practice before sharpening the knives. 😉
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Personally, I don't think the new $1 per month fee for additional regions is something to get overly dramatic about. One region remains free, and every additional region costs $1 per month. A VAR counts as one region, regardless of its size, and that was clearly stated during the meeting. So no, an 8x8 or even a 16x16 VAR suddenly costing the equivalent of dozens of regions is not what is happening.
I also think we need to be realistic about the fact that running a large grid, maintaining servers, storage and an asset system costs money. Donations are apparently no longer covering everything, so OSGrid is looking for a more predictable way to cover those costs. I don't find that unreasonable. Whether they manage the money and infrastructure well enough is another question, and I think it is perfectly fair to keep an eye on that.
And please, can we stop blaming Trump for everything? LOL. Someone in the discussion suggested that the change is because of Trump and the financial situation in the US, but I was at the meeting and that was certainly not presented as the reason. The discussion was much more about operating costs, server capacity, donations and the need for a more reliable source of income. So unless someone has actual evidence connecting the two, I would leave Trump out of this one.
Does that mean I think OSGrid is perfect? Absolutely not. They have had their problems, and there are legitimate concerns about reliability, the asset server and how things are managed. A small fee doesn't magically make those problems disappear.
But let's keep some perspective here. One dollar a month for an additional region is still ridiculously cheap compared with what people pay for regions on many other grids, and certainly compared with Second Life. If this relatively small contribution helps keep OSGrid running and allows them to improve their infrastructure, I personally don't see it as the end of the world.
I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me. If someone doesn't want to pay, that's their choice. If people decide to move elsewhere, that's their choice too. I'm simply saying that after actually being present at the meeting, I don't see the announcement as the catastrophe some people are already making it out to be.
Let's see how it actually works in practice before sharpening the knives. 😉
LET ME GUESS: The next OSgrid enhancement will activate the "Payment info on file" function in Opensim.
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Why don't you take a look at the prices on other grids?
$5 to $80, depending on size.
Those few dollars don't really make a difference!
I mean, they used to do everything for free, but times have changed since Trump took office.
U.S. citizens hardly have any money left, and the OS grid isn't any better—money is probably getting tight.
Unless it’s a devious plan to make money!
We shouldn’t forget that.
Otherwise, everyone is free to find their own grid or create one.
Server costs start at $5 and up.
Have fun.
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$5 to $80, depending on size.
Those few dollars don't really make a difference!
I mean, they used to do everything for free, but times have changed since Trump took office.
U.S. citizens hardly have any money left, and the OS grid isn't any better—money is probably getting tight.
Unless it’s a devious plan to make money!
We shouldn’t forget that.
Otherwise, everyone is free to find their own grid or create one.
Server costs start at $5 and up.
Have fun.
The reason isn't Trump. The reason is AI. It has caused server costs to skyrocket because new server hardware has become much more expensive, and more and more server capacities are rented for AIs. OSgrid can no longer depend on donations to cover its costs.
Also, if they charged for ATTACHING sims (OSgrid doesn't rent existing land; you have to host your land yourself or have it hosted by someone else) as much as other grids charge for RENTING land, that'd cause an even bigger exodus. After all, people still have extra costs for running their sims.
I still remember the outcry when Metropolis announced to raise its attaching fees, then €3, to €10. Granted, before this could come to pass, the Metro admins lost all interest in investing time and energy into the grid.
And there's a huge difference between renting a 16x16 for $80 and attaching one to OSgrid for $1. Yes, $1. For a 16x16.
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Also, if they charged for ATTACHING sims (OSgrid doesn't rent existing land; you have to host your land yourself or have it hosted by someone else) as much as other grids charge for RENTING land, that'd cause an even bigger exodus. After all, people still have extra costs for running their sims.
I still remember the outcry when Metropolis announced to raise its attaching fees, then €3, to €10. Granted, before this could come to pass, the Metro admins lost all interest in investing time and energy into the grid.
And there's a huge difference between renting a 16x16 for $80 and attaching one to OSgrid for $1. Yes, $1. For a 16x16.
Agreed: Machine intelligence will be shaping the things to come. BUT OSgrid has it WRONG, they MUST meter the ASSETS: not how many regions you host.
I could put up a 8x8 region that is only 120 megs in file size; and have to pay a fortune every month BUT I can upload a 1x1 that has all of the stolen SL gunk nobody will ever fix at a whopping 50 gig OAR for FREE.
Instead of 'Share without Mercy' they can now 'SQUEEZE without MERCY' ... Pardon my early morning pre-caffeine bemusement. I get my silliest ideas in the early AM. Good luck with that, OSgrid.
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I could put up a 8x8 region that is only 120 megs in file size; and have to pay a fortune every month BUT I can upload a 1x1 that has all of the stolen SL gunk nobody will ever fix at a whopping 50 gig OAR for FREE.
Instead of 'Share without Mercy' they can now 'SQUEEZE without MERCY' ... Pardon my early morning pre-caffeine bemusement. I get my silliest ideas in the early AM. Good luck with that, OSgrid.
And now OSGrid is destroying itself.
Okay, $1 per region per month is something you can generally live with. But what are operators supposed to do if they run large regions or VARs?
If large VARs are actually going to be billed based on their size, or on the equivalent number of standard regions they represent, you eventually reach prices where you have to ask yourself whether it would make more sense to simply rent a region in Second Life instead.
I’m thinking, for example, of Crazy’s large regions. In terms of land area, those are clearly much larger than a normal 256×256 meter region.
And an alternative would at least have another advantage: You would no longer have to constantly deal with what I consider to be an extremely problematic asset server. If there are major or even near-complete asset failures every few months, then perhaps the first question should be what level of service is actually being provided to connected regions before additional fees are introduced.
I still believe that OSGrid should first take a critical look at its own costs.
According to the information I have — and please correct me if this is wrong — OSGrid operates at least part of its servers with OVH. Looking at OVH’s server prices, I do have questions about the overall cost structure and the infrastructure choices being made.
The recurring donation and fundraising campaigns also do not exactly increase my confidence in the grid’s long-term financial sustainability.
To be absolutely clear: this is my personal opinion.
I will therefore watch further developments rather calmly. My personal assessment is that, if OSGrid continues on this course, it could lose a significant amount of relevance by early to mid next year.
Whether that actually happens remains to be seen.
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Okay, $1 per region per month is something you can generally live with. But what are operators supposed to do if they run large regions or VARs?
If large VARs are actually going to be billed based on their size, or on the equivalent number of standard regions they represent, you eventually reach prices where you have to ask yourself whether it would make more sense to simply rent a region in Second Life instead.
I’m thinking, for example, of Crazy’s large regions. In terms of land area, those are clearly much larger than a normal 256×256 meter region.
And an alternative would at least have another advantage: You would no longer have to constantly deal with what I consider to be an extremely problematic asset server. If there are major or even near-complete asset failures every few months, then perhaps the first question should be what level of service is actually being provided to connected regions before additional fees are introduced.
I still believe that OSGrid should first take a critical look at its own costs.
According to the information I have — and please correct me if this is wrong — OSGrid operates at least part of its servers with OVH. Looking at OVH’s server prices, I do have questions about the overall cost structure and the infrastructure choices being made.
The recurring donation and fundraising campaigns also do not exactly increase my confidence in the grid’s long-term financial sustainability.
To be absolutely clear: this is my personal opinion.
I will therefore watch further developments rather calmly. My personal assessment is that, if OSGrid continues on this course, it could lose a significant amount of relevance by early to mid next year.
Whether that actually happens remains to be seen.
Vars count as one region each. I've edited the post to clarify that. Dan said it himself:
[11:36] dan banner: a var is 1 region
Charging per standard region would be a quick and painful suicide for OSgrid. As I've said in another comment: "Attaching an 8x8 would become more expensive than renting one elsewhere."
There's one little caveat: The free first region must not be larger than a 2x2. So if you don't have any single region or 2x2, you'll have to pay $1 for each one of your sims.
So the ones who'll suffer the most won't be people like Crazy with gigantic vars.
They'll be people like Silvia Sonoda who owns the ring around Lbsa Plaza. Her regions are so old, they were made before there were vars. They're all single regions, but a whole lot of these. And each one would cost $1/month except for one. This is why she's going to shut down these iconic but largely unknown regions. (Go visit them as long as you still can, everyone. There's a path that leads almost all the way around; you can wander it.)
The donation situation is the very reason why OSgrid is going to charge for attached regions now: Donations no longer cover the operational costs of the grid, especially now that the AI hype made servers more expensive everywhere. OSgrid needs a new source of income, a reliable and mandatory source of income. As a non-commercial grid, the only sensible source of income is a fee for attaching land, like Metro did it back then, only not nearly as expensive.
To my best knowledge, OSgrid itself is entirely hosted at OVH. They're also going to rent very cheap S3 server capacities at OVH to speed up the asset server (to get ahead of "S3 = Amazon" and "OMGWTFBBQ OSgrid will be sold out to Amazon!1!!").
Now, to also get ahead of the "we're gonna lose everything again" outcry: This will not be a reset. This will not mean an extended downtime. This may mean a few hours of downtime for activating the S3 storage. But from then on, the transition will be gradual.
Everything that's available on the old asset server will remain available from the old asset server, only a bit more slowly because the old asset server will also copy (!) its assets over to the S3 storage. Everything that's on S3 already will be available much faster. Newly-created or newly-uploaded assets will most likely go to S3 right away.
The old asset server will remain online until everything is available from S3.
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[11:36] dan banner: a var is 1 region
Charging per standard region would be a quick and painful suicide for OSgrid. As I've said in another comment: "Attaching an 8x8 would become more expensive than renting one elsewhere."
There's one little caveat: The free first region must not be larger than a 2x2. So if you don't have any single region or 2x2, you'll have to pay $1 for each one of your sims.
So the ones who'll suffer the most won't be people like Crazy with gigantic vars.
They'll be people like Silvia Sonoda who owns the ring around Lbsa Plaza. Her regions are so old, they were made before there were vars. They're all single regions, but a whole lot of these. And each one would cost $1/month except for one. This is why she's going to shut down these iconic but largely unknown regions. (Go visit them as long as you still can, everyone. There's a path that leads almost all the way around; you can wander it.)
The donation situation is the very reason why OSgrid is going to charge for attached regions now: Donations no longer cover the operational costs of the grid, especially now that the AI hype made servers more expensive everywhere. OSgrid needs a new source of income, a reliable and mandatory source of income. As a non-commercial grid, the only sensible source of income is a fee for attaching land, like Metro did it back then, only not nearly as expensive.
To my best knowledge, OSgrid itself is entirely hosted at OVH. They're also going to rent very cheap S3 server capacities at OVH to speed up the asset server (to get ahead of "S3 = Amazon" and "OMGWTFBBQ OSgrid will be sold out to Amazon!1!!").
Now, to also get ahead of the "we're gonna lose everything again" outcry: This will not be a reset. This will not mean an extended downtime. This may mean a few hours of downtime for activating the S3 storage. But from then on, the transition will be gradual.
Everything that's available on the old asset server will remain available from the old asset server, only a bit more slowly because the old asset server will also copy (!) its assets over to the S3 storage. Everything that's on S3 already will be available much faster. Newly-created or newly-uploaded assets will most likely go to S3 right away.
The old asset server will remain online until everything is available from S3.
well to clarify dans exact words so they arent twisted as it was he and alberti holding that meeting ,,,,and if ya were at the meeting ya would knoww what was actually stated by dan about the VAR regions they only count as 1 region no Matter the size ,,,,[11:33] dan banner: you're a resident and you want to run 5 regions you would login to the website and pay the $4 fee for the additional 4 regions
[11:34] dan banner: if you host regions for others we have a special form that region hosters would apply with
[11:34] dan banner: and rather than pre-paying you would be post billed
[11:35] dan banner: so anyone thats an approved hoster can setup regions as needed no hassles and would have until the 7th of each month to cover their costs
[11:36] Walter Balazic: any idea what the rate will be?
[11:36] dan banner: $1
[11:36] dan banner: per region per month
[11:36] Robyn Starbrook: $1 US
[11:36] Crazy Onasis: and Var?
[11:36] Walter Balazic: so it's the same for region hosters
[11:36] Umberrock 404: yes
[11:36] dan banner: a var is 1 region
[11:36] Crazy Onasis: ok
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[11:34] dan banner: if you host regions for others we have a special form that region hosters would apply with
[11:34] dan banner: and rather than pre-paying you would be post billed
[11:35] dan banner: so anyone thats an approved hoster can setup regions as needed no hassles and would have until the 7th of each month to cover their costs
[11:36] Walter Balazic: any idea what the rate will be?
[11:36] dan banner: $1
[11:36] dan banner: per region per month
[11:36] Robyn Starbrook: $1 US
[11:36] Crazy Onasis: and Var?
[11:36] Walter Balazic: so it's the same for region hosters
[11:36] Umberrock 404: yes
[11:36] dan banner: a var is 1 region
[11:36] Crazy Onasis: ok
Opensim is FREE servers and resources ARE NOT, when I self-hosted on OSgrid I chipped in voluntarily. OSgrid wants to make it compulsory for higher volume users. Those who value the service will pony up, those who do not will move on. Simple.
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This.
I can hear a lot of outcry from those who either have attached home-hosted sims to OSgrid or no sims at all, "OPENSIM MUST BE FREE!"
Sorry, but literally no grid out there is 100% free. It isn't like you can run a grid for diddly-squat. Especially not a grid the size of OSgrid with a) the biggest asset server of all and b) responsibility for more users than most other grids.
Even if you run a grid on an old Windows laptop at home, you still have to pay the electricity bill, you have to pay for your landline, and if the laptop goes up in smoke, you'll have to pay for new hardware. Big grids can't be hosted at home, they have to be run on professional-grade servers in data centres. And the data centre owners won't be like, "Oh, it's an OpenSim grid! Well, then you can get some servers for free plus some free support, of course!"
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I can hear a lot of outcry from those who either have attached home-hosted sims to OSgrid or no sims at all, "OPENSIM MUST BE FREE!"
Sorry, but literally no grid out there is 100% free. It isn't like you can run a grid for diddly-squat. Especially not a grid the size of OSgrid with a) the biggest asset server of all and b) responsibility for more users than most other grids.
Even if you run a grid on an old Windows laptop at home, you still have to pay the electricity bill, you have to pay for your landline, and if the laptop goes up in smoke, you'll have to pay for new hardware. Big grids can't be hosted at home, they have to be run on professional-grade servers in data centres. And the data centre owners won't be like, "Oh, it's an OpenSim grid! Well, then you can get some servers for free plus some free support, of course!"
OSG (OSGrid) have outlived both their reputation and usefulness as OpenSimulator server code is no longer in "testing phase" and doesn't need OSG or it's "testing grid", which is what OSG was set up originally to do.
OSGrid have further distanced themselves from the general OpenSimulator community through repeated mismanagement, technical outages (including two major grid-wide asset losses) and repeatedly and consistently banning, belittling and victimising swathes of their own users just "because" their faces didn't fit and they didn't like them (for whatever trumped up reason they could think of, at the time).
They forked the Opensimulator code base, by recently introducing a proprietary addition of "Display Names" to the OpenSimulator code, so, yeah, well done OSG, that was sooo needed (NOT)!
Now they're aspiring to become a commercial grid, in order to raise funding, but with such a chequered history, I doubt they will attract any interest or traction from their users.
I do feel sorry for those OSG users who have lost their assets in the past and also fear for those same users that decide to stay with OSG, my advice would be, as always, to vote with your feet and relocate to any other reputable OpenSim grid.
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OSGrid have further distanced themselves from the general OpenSimulator community through repeated mismanagement, technical outages (including two major grid-wide asset losses) and repeatedly and consistently banning, belittling and victimising swathes of their own users just "because" their faces didn't fit and they didn't like them (for whatever trumped up reason they could think of, at the time).
They forked the Opensimulator code base, by recently introducing a proprietary addition of "Display Names" to the OpenSimulator code, so, yeah, well done OSG, that was sooo needed (NOT)!
Now they're aspiring to become a commercial grid, in order to raise funding, but with such a chequered history, I doubt they will attract any interest or traction from their users.
I do feel sorry for those OSG users who have lost their assets in the past and also fear for those same users that decide to stay with OSG, my advice would be, as always, to vote with your feet and relocate to any other reputable OpenSim grid.
Indeed, read the reviews for LBSA -they're not exactly a ringing endorsement of OSGrid -at all.
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I predict a major exodus from OSGrid... I'll certainly leave! Janky asset server and constant outatsges since 2014 and now they want to charge! Good luck to them!
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How big was Paradwys again?
If you've only got that one sim, and it's no bigger than a 2x2, it won't cost you anything.
By the way, Dan has mentioned the asset server as well, that was the other big news: The plan is now to copy it over to S3 storage (same hoster as always, explicitly not Amazon) by and by. It'll take about a month with no downtime and no loss of access to assets. Assets that only exist on the old server will be a bit slower to rez, but assets on S3 will be faster.
https://osgrid.org/migration_assets.pdf
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If you've only got that one sim, and it's no bigger than a 2x2, it won't cost you anything.
By the way, Dan has mentioned the asset server as well, that was the other big news: The plan is now to copy it over to S3 storage (same hoster as always, explicitly not Amazon) by and by. It'll take about a month with no downtime and no loss of access to assets. Assets that only exist on the old server will be a bit slower to rez, but assets on S3 will be faster.
https://osgrid.org/migration_assets.pdf
Paradwys is a 1024x1024 var that was always self-hosted and run on Diva, so it was never on OSGrid. I haven't seriously run regions on OSGrid since August 2014 when we all know what happened.
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>If you've only got that one sim, and it's no bigger than a 2x2, it won't cost you anything.
https://opensimworld.com/hop/76912
Is a historic and still updated sim but it's 4x4 so after having already lost Metropolis they will now be chased off of OSG as well -with no place to land.
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https://opensimworld.com/hop/76912
Is a historic and still updated sim but it's 4x4 so after having already lost Metropolis they will now be chased off of OSG as well -with no place to land.
I wonder whether Plastichansa's issue will be the $2/month (one for Condensation Land, one for Libdescent) or the payment method.
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Some places will disappear from OSgrid.
If you haven't visited the Swondo sims around Lbsa (that aren't listed on OSW), do it ASAP because they're going to be axed before having them attached costs money.
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If you haven't visited the Swondo sims around Lbsa (that aren't listed on OSW), do it ASAP because they're going to be axed before having them attached costs money.
It's a ring of 16 single regions that spans around Lbsa Plaza. There's a path that connects most or all of them, so you can wander around Lbsa. (The path is interrupted at one point, I think, in the south, so you might want to start there.) These are among the oldest still existing regions in OSgrid from times when people still made their sim decorations themselves.
If you've got some more time, you may want to travel farther inland and explore the places beyond the ring.
Of course, if you're one of those who only ever teleport into sims to cam around for 2 minutes to look for hot new freebies ripped from SL to grub, and nothing else is of interest for you, then neither will be these places. Nothing to copy there.
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If you've got some more time, you may want to travel farther inland and explore the places beyond the ring.
Of course, if you're one of those who only ever teleport into sims to cam around for 2 minutes to look for hot new freebies ripped from SL to grub, and nothing else is of interest for you, then neither will be these places. Nothing to copy there.
Nope, that's not me. I've been in osgrid since 2007. I still make my own sim textures, and prim-based buildings and what not.
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Ask e.g. Walter what he'll pay for the Littlefield sims that now reside in OSgrid.
Then ask Linden Lab what you can get in Second Life for that amount of money. They'll probably laugh their butts off and offer you one quarter of a pimple island.
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Then ask Linden Lab what you can get in Second Life for that amount of money. They'll probably laugh their butts off and offer you one quarter of a pimple island.
Additional info according to Meow:
The free first region is limited to a 2x2 var. This means that "region" DOES mean "sim", and a var is 1 region.
I mean, look at how many big vars OSgrid has. It'd be insane to charge for each standard region. Attaching an 8x8 would become more expensive than renting one elsewhere.
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The free first region is limited to a 2x2 var. This means that "region" DOES mean "sim", and a var is 1 region.
I mean, look at how many big vars OSgrid has. It'd be insane to charge for each standard region. Attaching an 8x8 would become more expensive than renting one elsewhere.