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Dear Hypergridders, Alas Utopia Skye Grid is turned into a closed grid so you cant visit it anymore unless you create aan avatar at USG.
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Just to leave a comment here because I want to further expand: Everybody here seems to think that shutting down the hypergrid due to security issues is either an attempt to get money, or denies them of some perceived right to use digital content how they wish. I'll address these as best I can:
"They just want money" (paraphrased):
This is an incredibly bad take. Everyone knows the benefits of the hypergrid, and like in the real world if currency flows through the hypergrid it makes its way to the grids that use currency systems on them. Losing access to the hypergrid actually is at detriment to the grid denying it's features as the ability to explore the grid from a non-native account is no longer possible, and the money that person may potentially have is no longer going to go there unless they decide signing up is worth it.
"NGC doesn't allow God powers and I want to modify/transfer/copy the content!" (again, paraphrased):
There is a very, very good reason that Linden Lab (the creators of Second Life) created this permissions system. If I make a script, it is highly unlikely that unless I specify that the work is to be open-source, that I want that work to be modified by others, especially since giving you access to the code in scripts that can be fairly complex might be modified in my name for malicious purposes, or copy-pasted into someone else's to claim it was theirs. If you don't like the fact that the complex stuff is barred from your eyes, and here it comes...
===LEARN TO MAKE STUFF===
Finally, a small note:
OpenSim itself is an open-source technology. I do not blame the people who are behind the OpenSimulator project for the vast amounts of copyright infringement that occurs on the platform.
I *do* however blame grid owners who do not do their due diligence to consider how "safe harbour" status works in regards to the DMCA. It is NOT just asking creators to file DMCA takedown notices, it is that when someone who hosts a service is aware that copyright infringement is taking place on their platform, they have a duty of interest to investigate and act on potential cases of it. If a grid owner reads the fact that I said down below the items mentioned in reply are examples of copyright infringement, the expectation is to *investigate* (I do have screenshots of creators denying the legit use of their content for those interested). While I am not a legal expert/professional, it is my opinion that most OpenSim grids to not operate within the legal confines of the DMCA since they only ask people to fill in a form, and in reality it is a lot more complex.
The state of OpenSim's lack of IP content protection is pretty much the sole reason you don't see a larger number of creators wanting to make content here. They really would love to for all the benefits provided, but they either don't fully commit or simply don't bother because they know that there are glaring issues.
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"They just want money" (paraphrased):
This is an incredibly bad take. Everyone knows the benefits of the hypergrid, and like in the real world if currency flows through the hypergrid it makes its way to the grids that use currency systems on them. Losing access to the hypergrid actually is at detriment to the grid denying it's features as the ability to explore the grid from a non-native account is no longer possible, and the money that person may potentially have is no longer going to go there unless they decide signing up is worth it.
"NGC doesn't allow God powers and I want to modify/transfer/copy the content!" (again, paraphrased):
There is a very, very good reason that Linden Lab (the creators of Second Life) created this permissions system. If I make a script, it is highly unlikely that unless I specify that the work is to be open-source, that I want that work to be modified by others, especially since giving you access to the code in scripts that can be fairly complex might be modified in my name for malicious purposes, or copy-pasted into someone else's to claim it was theirs. If you don't like the fact that the complex stuff is barred from your eyes, and here it comes...
===LEARN TO MAKE STUFF===
Finally, a small note:
OpenSim itself is an open-source technology. I do not blame the people who are behind the OpenSimulator project for the vast amounts of copyright infringement that occurs on the platform.
I *do* however blame grid owners who do not do their due diligence to consider how "safe harbour" status works in regards to the DMCA. It is NOT just asking creators to file DMCA takedown notices, it is that when someone who hosts a service is aware that copyright infringement is taking place on their platform, they have a duty of interest to investigate and act on potential cases of it. If a grid owner reads the fact that I said down below the items mentioned in reply are examples of copyright infringement, the expectation is to *investigate* (I do have screenshots of creators denying the legit use of their content for those interested). While I am not a legal expert/professional, it is my opinion that most OpenSim grids to not operate within the legal confines of the DMCA since they only ask people to fill in a form, and in reality it is a lot more complex.
The state of OpenSim's lack of IP content protection is pretty much the sole reason you don't see a larger number of creators wanting to make content here. They really would love to for all the benefits provided, but they either don't fully commit or simply don't bother because they know that there are glaring issues.
NGC has nothing to do with god powers. Some below stated that NGC and god powers are mutually exclusive. I can definitively say that is untrue. SL has created restriction protocols. Just like LI / prims from uploaded mesh are a completely arbitrary monetization choice. Here in OS, every mesh object I upload ends up as 1 LI. This is about configuration, not mutually exclusive formats or characteristics. As for IP - use OS for your prototyping, then sell it on SL. Get over it.
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Actually it's the lack of a viable number of people out here to make a business sustainable. IP protections or no. Enjoy your fork, I personally intend on sticking with the main source from opensimulator.org as long as possible instead of switching to a variant that decides what I am and am not allowed to do with my grid.
If I wanted a closed garden or the metaverse equivalent of NetFlix -Secondlife is *right there*.
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If I wanted a closed garden or the metaverse equivalent of NetFlix -Secondlife is *right there*.
You can use NGC and you can use the hypergrid as is. The fork does not prevent you from using your grid how any other grid does. Obviously you are also correct that there is the idea to make a better "trust-focused" version of this that protects things like IP, but yeah. You can still use the hypergrid so I'm not sure what you mean lol.
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Digital rights management is what I mean -the user can only do what is permitted, not what is possible. Limiting capability and calling it a feature. :)
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In particular, a viable number of people out here who are willing to pay real money for everything.
That, and having to rely upon Gloebit and/or Podex as Hypergrid-wide payment systems, both of which are unreliable in their own ways. Or having one account with an avatar in each of those commercial grids that have their own payment systems. Or both.
That, and most grids deciding to be uncommercial and not being willing to adopt a real money payment system. I'm not even sure if it's possible to use Gloebit or Podex in a DreamGrid, and some 95% of all grids are DreamGrids. But, for example, if OSgrid wanted a grid-wide, Hypergrid-compatible real-money payment system, it would have one.
Many people came from Second Life to OpenSim with the explicit intention to escape Second Life's rampant capitalism. They will not let anyone take that away from them and force them to live in another capitalist system. Even less when all the merchants convert their L$ prices into e.g. Gloebit prices 1:1 although (or because) the Gloebit is more expensive than the Linden Dollar.
Not few of these people simply can't afford Second Life. And SL merchants really expect them to pay more real money for the same items in OpenSim than in Second Life?
What many Second Life creators and merchants would love to see is all of OpenSim going full commercial. All variants of the software, all existing grids, all future grids. And yes, they want to convert their prices 1:1.
But this won't happen. Even if vanilla OpenSim hard-coded both Gloebit support and DRM in and made it impossible to turn either off, someone would simply go and fork the last version that doesn't have either hard-coded in. And people would run that fork. If commercial OpenSim automatically blocked any grid that doesn't have a real-money payment system, effectively locking non-commercial grids out of the Hypergrid, they'd simply start their own parallel Hypergrid. And nobody would be able to do anything against it.
OpenSim could change its license to proprietary and lock away its sources along with going full commercial. But they can't relicense already released versions and make them closed-source. If the code is out there, the code really is out there.
Even in the very unlikely case that literally all of OpenSim went commercial, i.e. by threatening and/or blackmailing all the fork devs, those who don't want OpenSim to be commercial would definitely not stay and start paying money. No, they'd leave. Either they'd grow the Overte community, or they'd leave virtual worlds altogether.
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That, and having to rely upon Gloebit and/or Podex as Hypergrid-wide payment systems, both of which are unreliable in their own ways. Or having one account with an avatar in each of those commercial grids that have their own payment systems. Or both.
That, and most grids deciding to be uncommercial and not being willing to adopt a real money payment system. I'm not even sure if it's possible to use Gloebit or Podex in a DreamGrid, and some 95% of all grids are DreamGrids. But, for example, if OSgrid wanted a grid-wide, Hypergrid-compatible real-money payment system, it would have one.
Many people came from Second Life to OpenSim with the explicit intention to escape Second Life's rampant capitalism. They will not let anyone take that away from them and force them to live in another capitalist system. Even less when all the merchants convert their L$ prices into e.g. Gloebit prices 1:1 although (or because) the Gloebit is more expensive than the Linden Dollar.
Not few of these people simply can't afford Second Life. And SL merchants really expect them to pay more real money for the same items in OpenSim than in Second Life?
What many Second Life creators and merchants would love to see is all of OpenSim going full commercial. All variants of the software, all existing grids, all future grids. And yes, they want to convert their prices 1:1.
But this won't happen. Even if vanilla OpenSim hard-coded both Gloebit support and DRM in and made it impossible to turn either off, someone would simply go and fork the last version that doesn't have either hard-coded in. And people would run that fork. If commercial OpenSim automatically blocked any grid that doesn't have a real-money payment system, effectively locking non-commercial grids out of the Hypergrid, they'd simply start their own parallel Hypergrid. And nobody would be able to do anything against it.
OpenSim could change its license to proprietary and lock away its sources along with going full commercial. But they can't relicense already released versions and make them closed-source. If the code is out there, the code really is out there.
Even in the very unlikely case that literally all of OpenSim went commercial, i.e. by threatening and/or blackmailing all the fork devs, those who don't want OpenSim to be commercial would definitely not stay and start paying money. No, they'd leave. Either they'd grow the Overte community, or they'd leave virtual worlds altogether.
I think this is a bit fallacious. I'm more speaking about the right to be recognized as a creator for something, not it's monetization. I think this is a much larger concern than simply making money off of OpenSim, something not even I'm interested in. :/
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The reason I say this is because closing hypergrid access makes no difference and in fact actually makes it worse for a grid to monetize. If you wanted profit, it would be a lot better to have access to the hypergrid community. USG just lost this so I'm not sure how this statement holds.
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You know nothing. If I made the change for money reasons I'm clearly just stupid. I'm not making money from any of this. I do it because of a small community of very good friends wants a home they can trust and that is secure.
See below about the definition of "Security"...
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See below about the definition of "Security"...
Utopia Skye Grid closed its grid due to hypergrid security reasons. Mike Chase is working on fixing this with the NGC code and will return USG to hypergrid availability after he is comfortable with the security. Come visit anyway.
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'security' meaning 'being able to lock down content on other people's computers', most likely.
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Security in this context means that the Binary Formatter serialization mechanism used throughout OS and especially in the HG code is deprecated in Dotnet, is totally hackable and exploitable with published exploits in a number of places. Core has shown zero interest in fixing it and I just dont feel comfortable putting systems on the internet that have holes big enough to drive a truck through. I'm disappointed in your obvious opinion of me. We don't know each other well but are acquainted. Money and/or locking up legitimate content isn't ever what I've been about.
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Core also has got exactly one coder. To my best knowledge, Ubit still doesn't let anyone else at the code, nor does he accept pull/merge requests anymore.
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It has been ages since we've talked, much less spent time together -true. It's also possible that there are huge gaping *legit* security issues such as the one you mentioned. However, unless my memory is very bad (spoilers, I'm not saying it's not) it hasn't been a secret that you've either worked on or looked for ways to lock down content to prevent circumvention. Legit question here -am I remembering incorrectly? If I am wrong, I'll be the first to apologize. But judging from Tonia's message in this thread (referring to the 'trusted hypergrid' initiative I'd be surprised if my impressions are wrong.
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As a creator, the idea that the hypergrid presents many IP protection issues stops me from fully committing to this platform. Just to let you know as well, some of my BEST products on platforms with monetization (like Second Life) are *free*. There are many creators who would make for OpenSim in a heartbeat not for the money, but simply because they know someone isn't going to simply copy-paste assets in their name and suddenly pretend they are a creator from the hard work of others. They just want to be recognized as people who make stuff and the way the hypergrid is set up completely denies them of this and scales up to copyright infringement if I decide to take the needed steps to protect the work.
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Right, the hypergrid is wildly inappropriate if IP protection is your primary concern. That horse was dead and beaten well before G+ was shuttered.
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I've worked to provide protection for creator IP yes. Never have I done anything to restrict access where the content is legitimately being used. And I'm working to make OpenSim a better, more stable platform. Mostly as donated time since there's no real money in this.
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Yes utopia grid was in hypergrid before but decided to turned into closed grid back in December 2025 in notices. Utopia Grid had pulled out beacon and opensimworld.
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That's unfortunate. If you're just a renter with them, there are lots of great grids on the hypergrid that you can rent with instead. I'd ask for an OAR and open up those options again for your own enjoyment as well as those that enjoy visiting what you create:)
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