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Hello all
I would like to explain, why it is better to use animesh instead of NPC. If you just need one or 4 NPCs on your sim then it is not really important to read this. But if you want to have a population on your sim like I have on Big City Life with 400 moving people then it is very relevant.
NPCs take a lot of performance of a sim. It is very resource heavy like the land itself (because of physics) or Avis. Animesh people you can calculate like trees you pant on your sim.
Many still believe you can't do much with animesh. Just put some animation in it to move or dance a bit. But that's not really true. We all know the animesh horses of Roland Francis and what you can do with it. It is similar with all other. Here a video to demonstrate that you can even have sex with it and let them walk around.
https://rumble.com/v5uxybh-demo-for-animesh.html
Usually everyone would use NPC for this. There is one advantage for NPCs, of course, because you can sit them on moving vehicles. But this is the only advantage of NPCs. My Jockeys at the horse race track are also NPCs. There is no easy other way to solve this with animesh Jockeys on the horses.
But for all other things you can easily use animesh people. If you need help for scripting stuff then you just need to ask any AI LLM today. They are already that good that they can script for you in OSSL a script to get all working what you want the animesh do.
For building good looking animesh people it is recommended to use the Ruth or Roth body as root prim and add all other to this body. It has just to be rigged. All stuff you attach to the body has to be rigged. Even if you want to let an Animesh man or woman ride a bicycle then the bike has to be rigged and you put in the matching animation with a route script. Very easy to do. All handmade.
But since newer times you have already really good option to let AI create your animesh. I don't talk about complicated routines you connect your LLM with Blender through Python script or such. There is now very easy solution everyone can do on a website. This is called Meshy AI.
Meshy creates your animesh just by telling him through text. You get first 4 examples as Statue and you choose the best you like. Then you can even give the AI an image to create texture for this figure. But you can let the AI decide what texture is the best. Just give him some hints what it should have. That's all. Then you can let meshy rig the animesh man or woman or monster or animal or whatever you want to have. Meshy knows usually where to rig at arms and legs etc. But for this the statue should be symmetric. You can also rig unsymmetric but then you have to edit a bit by yourself. Usually you get symmetric statue anyway and then every kid can create a rigged statue as animesh. Download this as blender file or any other file and put it in blender to convert it in dae file. Then upload this dae file and you have a new animesh inworld. Just put in the animation script with animation and it moves. We have in opensim now an expert for creating animesh with meshy AI. Ask Prince Amor. He is creating every day tons of new animesh for opensim. And all created with AI. Usually he is showing off his new creation now as Avi on Lbsa. Yes you can also use all this as Avatar too. The complexity is very low compared to usual Avis or NPCs.
I would like to explain, why it is better to use animesh instead of NPC. If you just need one or 4 NPCs on your sim then it is not really important to read this. But if you want to have a population on your sim like I have on Big City Life with 400 moving people then it is very relevant.
NPCs take a lot of performance of a sim. It is very resource heavy like the land itself (because of physics) or Avis. Animesh people you can calculate like trees you pant on your sim.
Many still believe you can't do much with animesh. Just put some animation in it to move or dance a bit. But that's not really true. We all know the animesh horses of Roland Francis and what you can do with it. It is similar with all other. Here a video to demonstrate that you can even have sex with it and let them walk around.
https://rumble.com/v5uxybh-demo-for-animesh.html
Usually everyone would use NPC for this. There is one advantage for NPCs, of course, because you can sit them on moving vehicles. But this is the only advantage of NPCs. My Jockeys at the horse race track are also NPCs. There is no easy other way to solve this with animesh Jockeys on the horses.
But for all other things you can easily use animesh people. If you need help for scripting stuff then you just need to ask any AI LLM today. They are already that good that they can script for you in OSSL a script to get all working what you want the animesh do.
For building good looking animesh people it is recommended to use the Ruth or Roth body as root prim and add all other to this body. It has just to be rigged. All stuff you attach to the body has to be rigged. Even if you want to let an Animesh man or woman ride a bicycle then the bike has to be rigged and you put in the matching animation with a route script. Very easy to do. All handmade.
But since newer times you have already really good option to let AI create your animesh. I don't talk about complicated routines you connect your LLM with Blender through Python script or such. There is now very easy solution everyone can do on a website. This is called Meshy AI.
Meshy creates your animesh just by telling him through text. You get first 4 examples as Statue and you choose the best you like. Then you can even give the AI an image to create texture for this figure. But you can let the AI decide what texture is the best. Just give him some hints what it should have. That's all. Then you can let meshy rig the animesh man or woman or monster or animal or whatever you want to have. Meshy knows usually where to rig at arms and legs etc. But for this the statue should be symmetric. You can also rig unsymmetric but then you have to edit a bit by yourself. Usually you get symmetric statue anyway and then every kid can create a rigged statue as animesh. Download this as blender file or any other file and put it in blender to convert it in dae file. Then upload this dae file and you have a new animesh inworld. Just put in the animation script with animation and it moves. We have in opensim now an expert for creating animesh with meshy AI. Ask Prince Amor. He is creating every day tons of new animesh for opensim. And all created with AI. Usually he is showing off his new creation now as Avi on Lbsa. Yes you can also use all this as Avatar too. The complexity is very low compared to usual Avis or NPCs.
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ah yes the Animesh vs NPC debate, and before I start I have no hate in anything I'm saying. You have put so much work into the place.
I will say that animesh still have skeletons to calculate, and that is a large part of the resources used. Having 400 animesh is still like trying to render 400 avatars to the viewer. Even if you limit the amount that are fully rendered, the skeleton calculations still happen in the background so it can render the 2D sprite that replaces it.
When I visited, my FPS was struggling to get above 10 in some places. As soon as I hid all the animesh it shot up into the high 40's, making the experience so much nicer. I wasn't even in sight of any animesh at the time either.
(Advanced/Rendering types/Animesh) For me toggling the animesh off improved the FPS a lot. Simply too many skeletons to process all at once.
I'm not totally convinced animesh are that much more efficient than an NPC. I guess it depends what you are doing with them. You could script the hell out of an animesh army and have it turn into a lag monster too.
With NPC's they will all use the same system to move around and may not contribute to the script load as much as a heap of individually scripted animesh, as one NPC controller can control a bunch of NPC's movements, animations and appearance with very few scripts.
If for example your crowd of animesh in front of the stage were NPC's, you could kill them when nobody is near and have no overhead causing lag unless they actually needed to be seen. Sure you could put the animesh in rezzers to do the same thing I guess.
NPC's use physical movement like avatars, and the physics engine is capable of handling a lot of physical objects. I'm not sure how many key frame motion scripts the script engine can process before all the other scripts start to get laggy. At least if the physics is bogged down all the scripts should still run fine.
I can think of a few things that would help with the lag.
As the region is so big, most of it won't be seen at any one time. Not many people have a stupidly high draw distance by default. Even with max draw distance not everything will be seen.
You could try and dynamically rez the animesh only when people are nearby. I think drastically reducing the total skeleton count rezzed in world would help a lot with the FPS.
Movement lag was also quite bad, so instead of having lots of key frame motion vehicles doing laps around the region constantly, you could take a different approach and only have moving things near avatars. Have traffic that wakes up when people are near and stops when not seen.
Busses, taxis and trains could spawn at their stopping places when people are near and wait for a passenger for a while before driving off out of sight and despawning. They would only complete the full routes if there was a passenger. This way your not wasting resources moving things unnecessarily.
I know you want to fully simulate every last thing in minute detail, but in reality you will have to cheat and fake things to pull off the overall effect.
Like i said at the start, no hate intended. I hope it was constructive.
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I will say that animesh still have skeletons to calculate, and that is a large part of the resources used. Having 400 animesh is still like trying to render 400 avatars to the viewer. Even if you limit the amount that are fully rendered, the skeleton calculations still happen in the background so it can render the 2D sprite that replaces it.
When I visited, my FPS was struggling to get above 10 in some places. As soon as I hid all the animesh it shot up into the high 40's, making the experience so much nicer. I wasn't even in sight of any animesh at the time either.
(Advanced/Rendering types/Animesh) For me toggling the animesh off improved the FPS a lot. Simply too many skeletons to process all at once.
I'm not totally convinced animesh are that much more efficient than an NPC. I guess it depends what you are doing with them. You could script the hell out of an animesh army and have it turn into a lag monster too.
With NPC's they will all use the same system to move around and may not contribute to the script load as much as a heap of individually scripted animesh, as one NPC controller can control a bunch of NPC's movements, animations and appearance with very few scripts.
If for example your crowd of animesh in front of the stage were NPC's, you could kill them when nobody is near and have no overhead causing lag unless they actually needed to be seen. Sure you could put the animesh in rezzers to do the same thing I guess.
NPC's use physical movement like avatars, and the physics engine is capable of handling a lot of physical objects. I'm not sure how many key frame motion scripts the script engine can process before all the other scripts start to get laggy. At least if the physics is bogged down all the scripts should still run fine.
I can think of a few things that would help with the lag.
As the region is so big, most of it won't be seen at any one time. Not many people have a stupidly high draw distance by default. Even with max draw distance not everything will be seen.
You could try and dynamically rez the animesh only when people are nearby. I think drastically reducing the total skeleton count rezzed in world would help a lot with the FPS.
Movement lag was also quite bad, so instead of having lots of key frame motion vehicles doing laps around the region constantly, you could take a different approach and only have moving things near avatars. Have traffic that wakes up when people are near and stops when not seen.
Busses, taxis and trains could spawn at their stopping places when people are near and wait for a passenger for a while before driving off out of sight and despawning. They would only complete the full routes if there was a passenger. This way your not wasting resources moving things unnecessarily.
I know you want to fully simulate every last thing in minute detail, but in reality you will have to cheat and fake things to pull off the overall effect.
Like i said at the start, no hate intended. I hope it was constructive.
It's really stupid hard to get away from lag in massive builds not to mention the movement of NPC's or Animesh. I usually myself push the envelope on big builds so sadly if i got reports of 10 FPS as much as it hurts i turn the regions offline or just start removing objects. Sadly :( 1 thing I do may help is just make as much as possible phantom.
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Yes opensim is just laid out for 1x1 sims with islands and a house on it. Then I have also as Mac user 30 fps framerate. But I built my Big City Life to the limit what opensim as stoneage technology is capable of and how to tune it. Also with tuning opensim ini for CPU (which only concerns one core of the whole CPU by the way because opensim is not multithreading able). Phantom buildings and trees are good advice. Also indirect lights for midnight. Not to mention no overlapping of light at street lights etc. It is all already known and even to avoid as far as possible AVsitter and use PMAC. Is all already calculated. And so it is with animesh versus NPCs. It is built to the ultimate limit and it works. Even I can record with my MacBook Air full circuit with my 150 meter long Santa Fe train. https://rumble.com/v63w8lg-full-circuit-with-santa-fe-trai...
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I'm not particularly expert at using either, but it seems to me that you can use animesh in places you can't use npcs (bc ossl, permissions, whatever).
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yes animesh have much less complexity. Usually you clone your avi to make NPCs. Usually you don't wear painted clothes. For animesh you can care that they wear painted clothes. You care much more for different look. I saw that old ugly animesh had 50 prim impact or more. Is not needed if you create them handmade inworld. 10-15 is enough usually. And if you create them with AI you get also easily animesh with 5 prims and less complexity than a hat I wear. Is also a question with how many triangles you import the dae file figure. I always import with 900/300/100. Is enough for opensim or secondlife. For unity and unreal engine you need 100 times more to look ok. But there we have anyway 64 bit environment and not 16 bit.
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Oh Mr Snoodle. I know there is no hate. We are best friends. No worries. But is good that all other know then too.
Arguments are the process of debates. Only this matters.
Now to your suggestions. Yes If you have Avis in Firestorm on no limit and reduce to 16 or less that is moving then you are right that framerate goes up enormously. Default is 16 and I think most people never change it. They won't see all people moving at the Central Park stage. Too big crowd for default in preferences.
But you are right. This is a big problem at 4 places on the sim with big crowds.
But to rez then 80 people at once is an overkill. I have the rezzer and tried out at big stage for audience. Took ages.
For the KFM scripts there is other solution. To tune the opensim ini for more CPU Core power for this sim. The problem is that opensimulator is not multithreading and running on one core in principle. So the opensim ini tuning for CPU is then advantage for my sim but disadvantage of for all other sims on the grid. As long the other sims don'T need much CPU performance it is ok. We had also other solution just to put my sim alone on one grid on other computer. And now Big City Life is also on another grid just on Jimmys super computer he is using as user. lol trains run much faster there as on decadence grid. So it is all possible to get the KFM related scripts running smooth and fast just by tuning the opensim ini for CPU and faster computer.
I had other idea with Tron and you to solve the whole problem just to remove whole land and replace it all with mesh. Then there is still the physics problem but this was then also the idea just to convert all in unity and then give the whole sim just unreal engine. Of course, all the scripts won't run anymore and would have to be made new for unreal engine. But this would be in 5 years or so anyway the case.
It has to stay all realistic as it is. As long Jimmy has framerate of 40 about and I can walk straight with my MacBook air and even can take videos all is fine. In 5 years at least the oar will come in unity and unreal engine will be installed to let it run. that's the plan so far.
here an example with unreal engine for crowd of many people in city https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02f...
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Arguments are the process of debates. Only this matters.
Now to your suggestions. Yes If you have Avis in Firestorm on no limit and reduce to 16 or less that is moving then you are right that framerate goes up enormously. Default is 16 and I think most people never change it. They won't see all people moving at the Central Park stage. Too big crowd for default in preferences.
But you are right. This is a big problem at 4 places on the sim with big crowds.
But to rez then 80 people at once is an overkill. I have the rezzer and tried out at big stage for audience. Took ages.
For the KFM scripts there is other solution. To tune the opensim ini for more CPU Core power for this sim. The problem is that opensimulator is not multithreading and running on one core in principle. So the opensim ini tuning for CPU is then advantage for my sim but disadvantage of for all other sims on the grid. As long the other sims don'T need much CPU performance it is ok. We had also other solution just to put my sim alone on one grid on other computer. And now Big City Life is also on another grid just on Jimmys super computer he is using as user. lol trains run much faster there as on decadence grid. So it is all possible to get the KFM related scripts running smooth and fast just by tuning the opensim ini for CPU and faster computer.
I had other idea with Tron and you to solve the whole problem just to remove whole land and replace it all with mesh. Then there is still the physics problem but this was then also the idea just to convert all in unity and then give the whole sim just unreal engine. Of course, all the scripts won't run anymore and would have to be made new for unreal engine. But this would be in 5 years or so anyway the case.
It has to stay all realistic as it is. As long Jimmy has framerate of 40 about and I can walk straight with my MacBook air and even can take videos all is fine. In 5 years at least the oar will come in unity and unreal engine will be installed to let it run. that's the plan so far.
here an example with unreal engine for crowd of many people in city https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02f...
pro yes. But you can create some for free. To try out. If you don't have enough then you sign in with other email adresse lol
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Yes, but I can spin up as many NPCs as I want for free, in perpetua.
If there's another way to make animesh gratis I'd love to hear about it -but I suspect it involves yoinking models into blender and rigging them there?
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If there's another way to make animesh gratis I'd love to hear about it -but I suspect it involves yoinking models into blender and rigging them there?
no you can create by yourself also for free. Handmade inworld. All the models on fashionweek
https://rumble.com/v6669ig-fashion-week-on-park-avenue.htm...
or band members on stage and other in audience are all handmade with ruth and roth body as root prim. Jimmy made them all inworld. Satyr discribed somewhere how to create them inworld. Is not that difficult. Most important is that you have to have all items rigged. Then you can build inworld your animesh
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https://rumble.com/v6669ig-fashion-week-on-park-avenue.htm...
or band members on stage and other in audience are all handmade with ruth and roth body as root prim. Jimmy made them all inworld. Satyr discribed somewhere how to create them inworld. Is not that difficult. Most important is that you have to have all items rigged. Then you can build inworld your animesh
oh no. But good idea. But perhaps it is also shown already somewhere. I only made one video about how to make and use a route script hud and for what it is useful and for what not. Other AI stuff videos just for educational reason. But never for animesh creating. Perhaps Prince Amor could make one how easy it is creating it with meshy AI.
edit:
addendum: I can remember that Satyr explained somewhere how to create animesh people handmade. Jimmy and I learned from it. But must be older on Osgrid forum or so.
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edit:
addendum: I can remember that Satyr explained somewhere how to create animesh people handmade. Jimmy and I learned from it. But must be older on Osgrid forum or so.
well, sorry to say that but your wonderful sim is very laggy with or without npcs or animesh. I cant confirm your statement. I have meanwhile more than 1000 !!!!!( I love to collect them) different NPC´s plus animesh people on heavy water and it is fully built and there is n o l a g at all. Seems to depend on the server as well!
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Then you have slow internet connection and/or older computer? Yes, this is pity then. I warn to come with older computers or Aldi Laptops. Then you don't have fun on my sim. I walk around with my MacBook Air, which is not a gamer computer and have normal 16 K Internet connection in Germany. For me it is working as you can see in all my videos.
To your sim with 2000 NPCs I would like to see it. For me impossible to believe. Usually if you have 100 avis/NPCs on a 1x1 sim for a party it will crash.
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To your sim with 2000 NPCs I would like to see it. For me impossible to believe. Usually if you have 100 avis/NPCs on a 1x1 sim for a party it will crash.
well sorry ...I have a very good computer dont be so arrogant.. no Aldi shit or similar.. Olsen mentioned also the lag on your sim..perhaps you get used to it meanwhile ? Yes it is possible... and no no crashing. There had been a lot of people in the past that visited heavy water and no one ever felt lag or is this a slight commercial for prince armors animesh persons (that are really good!)
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a bit laggy is not very laggy. And Jimmy Olsen says he is right now on mobile internet connection. For normal sims enough. But of course for my heavy source sim not.
Seems you are aggressive in your tone. Why that? You are believer of the NPC fraction in Secondlife and opensim? I have heard of this war of the fractions in Secondlife. One are the NPC believer and the other the animesh believer. The NPC believer should be also more the old Lego prim fans and don't like the new mesh stuff. Ok before we get religion war here, we should just let decide people.
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Seems you are aggressive in your tone. Why that? You are believer of the NPC fraction in Secondlife and opensim? I have heard of this war of the fractions in Secondlife. One are the NPC believer and the other the animesh believer. The NPC believer should be also more the old Lego prim fans and don't like the new mesh stuff. Ok before we get religion war here, we should just let decide people.
hahaha you behave like a insulted child. YOU started the talk about this religion I never heard of before. I talked about your "lag"on npc people. And I answered I cant confirm it..thats it!
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You visited me (by the way I was there and you didn't say even Hi) and I can visit you. Then you can show me. I always say "Huhu" to owners of sims, when I visit them. Which sim is it with your 1000 or 2000 NPCs (you edited your text ok)
edit: I just tried to get on your heavy water sim. I don't have access to it. Teleport failed
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edit: I just tried to get on your heavy water sim. I don't have access to it. Teleport failed