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what do you think is the "standard" height for an avatar? I've noticed that in SL the basic avatars, the ones they give you when you first register, are about 1.75 meters tall or a little taller or a little shorter.
Even the Shapes of the various body and head creators provide shapes of about 1.90 maximum if I remember correctly.
Many users raise their avatars even beyond 2 meters in height reaching even up to 2.40 meters which is really a lot.
Tall avatars, always look slimmer and more defined, but they are often "bulky," not properly seated for example on a chair because they pierce the coffee table for example, or even in vehicles a foot comes out of the helicopter another example.
so what is the average and correct height for a vatar, regardless of what you may like personally, because then rightly everyone makes the shape as they prefer, but the standard heights the ones that should be corect, in your opinion what are they?
Even the Shapes of the various body and head creators provide shapes of about 1.90 maximum if I remember correctly.
Many users raise their avatars even beyond 2 meters in height reaching even up to 2.40 meters which is really a lot.
Tall avatars, always look slimmer and more defined, but they are often "bulky," not properly seated for example on a chair because they pierce the coffee table for example, or even in vehicles a foot comes out of the helicopter another example.
so what is the average and correct height for a vatar, regardless of what you may like personally, because then rightly everyone makes the shape as they prefer, but the standard heights the ones that should be corect, in your opinion what are they?
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I Just wanted to mention Lock Martin who played Gort in the 1950s SciFi classic The day the earth stood still - No, not the Keano one :) Lock was 7 feet 7 inches tall! Wikipedia if you want... Go Gort!
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As the general consensus here suggests, there is no 'ideal' height, but with all my builds I point out that avatars taller than 2 metres in height will not be able to enter my buildings. I also build all my buildings to scale, and make no allowances for the default viewer camera angle, but there is an easy way to get the 'first person shooter' camera angle: enable Advanced settings in the viewer and choose Show Debug Settings. Once there, type in 'CameraOffsetRearView' and there you can set the Z co-ordinates so that the camera view angle is more natural than the default 45 degree camera view.
As for avatar height, the average female in the USA today is just under 5' 4" (1.265m) and with a bit of work the avatar shape can be made slim and pleasing, so I personally don't understand when some claim that taller avatars look 'better'. They might look better against the usually comically oversized furniture, houses and vehicles, but most of those can be resized with the possible exception of buildings as most seem to have been constructed taking the default viewer camera angle into account.
But there again, it all depends on why one is in virtual worlds in the first place. For me, and those like me it is to build virtual environments that are as realistic and true to life as possible, despite sometimes falling foul of the technical limitations imposed by doing such. For others, it's about having a fantasy virtual life, which doesn't necessarily demand that everything conforms to realism. Both are perfectly valid, though I do sometimes wonder about those avatars that have reached considerable age who still have legs that form two-thirds of body height and who are stick thin, and whose arms are about a third too short. Very few of us conform to the classic proportions used in much western art, but I think a simple look in a full-length mirror, or even one's reflection in a shop window would suffice to give an indication of human proportions to serve as a basis for credible avatar creation.
Ultimately it's about having fun, so best not to worry too much about what is the ideal avatar height or shape.
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As for avatar height, the average female in the USA today is just under 5' 4" (1.265m) and with a bit of work the avatar shape can be made slim and pleasing, so I personally don't understand when some claim that taller avatars look 'better'. They might look better against the usually comically oversized furniture, houses and vehicles, but most of those can be resized with the possible exception of buildings as most seem to have been constructed taking the default viewer camera angle into account.
But there again, it all depends on why one is in virtual worlds in the first place. For me, and those like me it is to build virtual environments that are as realistic and true to life as possible, despite sometimes falling foul of the technical limitations imposed by doing such. For others, it's about having a fantasy virtual life, which doesn't necessarily demand that everything conforms to realism. Both are perfectly valid, though I do sometimes wonder about those avatars that have reached considerable age who still have legs that form two-thirds of body height and who are stick thin, and whose arms are about a third too short. Very few of us conform to the classic proportions used in much western art, but I think a simple look in a full-length mirror, or even one's reflection in a shop window would suffice to give an indication of human proportions to serve as a basis for credible avatar creation.
Ultimately it's about having fun, so best not to worry too much about what is the ideal avatar height or shape.
Ultimately, your choice of avatar height should reflect what makes you feel comfortable and connected to your virtual identity. Some people might prefer to be taller to stand out, while others might choose a smaller height for a more intimate feel. One should never dictate a height for avatars. Short Avatars being assumed as a child is nonsense. Personal preferences define our identities.
As Jupiter says there is no such thing as a "correct height" for avatars, but if we want to make our avatars look more realistic to the real world then there are things we can do and lessons we can learn. For example, when creating your shape look to the top right (for most viewers) of the shape editor window and you will see there is a height indicator. The clue here is that the tallest person in the world (RL) comes in at 2.51m or 8ft 2.8 inches. So maybe you don't want to be any taller than that.
Some people will tell you that the height indicator in the Shape editor isn't accurate. But oddly enough if you rez a prim next to yourself and edit it to the the same height as you avatar, the values are the same. Everything in OpenSim is relative. But probably what most people do is set their height to be relative to the other avatars around them, thus, if everyone sets their size tall, everyone will be tall.
Another factor that affects this is the things around us, houses, etc. Again, we use real world cues to set our height against them. We all know how we look walking through a doorway, so we set our size accordingly, but what if the buildings are the wrong size to start? How can that be? Quite simple - camera angles. If the height of ceilings, etc. in the houses that are built in OpenSim matched the real world we would all be struggling around with the settings for our camera follow angle to be able see where we are going. The solution? Stealing a trick from the movies...make the ceilings and hence doorways taller so it is easier to follow avatars as they move around.
It is these cues that affect our relative perceptions of what our avatars should look like.
Height is also a key factor in determining the rest of our Shape. For this we can take lessons from Leonardo da Vinci and his famous work of the Vitruvian Man. You have probably all seen the picture of a man with his arms and legs spread inside a square and circle.
This works on lots of averages for the proportions of different parts of our body relative (there's that word again!) to our height.
Some examples (taken from da Vinci's own words but adapted here for ease) are -
The length of a person's outstretched arms (T-pose) is equal to their height.
From the hairline to the underside of the chin is one-tenth of a person's height.
From the bottom of the chin to the top of the head is one-eighth of a person's height.
From the top of the chest to the top of the head is one-sixth of a person's height.
From the crown of the chest to the roots of the hair is the seventh part of the whole person.
From the nipples to the crown of the head is one quarter of a person’s height.
The greatest width of the shoulders is at least one quarter of the height of a person.
From the elbow to the tip of the hand is the fifth part of a person’s height,
and from the elbow to the armpit is the one eighth of a person’s height.
The whole hand is the tenth part of person’s height.
The beginning of the genitals marks the middle of the person.
A foot is one seventh of person’s height.
From the sole of the foot to below the knee is one-quarter of person’s height.
From below the knee to the beginning of the genitals is one quarter of the height of a person.
The distance from the bottom of the chin to the nose and from the hairline to the eyebrows are each the same, and like the ear, one-third of the face.
But maybe the most important thing of all is that we are not all average. The real world and OpenSim would be quite boring places if we all looked alike. We should embrace difference and personal choice (provided it is legal) in all forms, including the way our avatars look.
Enjoy being who you want to be and the way you want to look. If you are short like me then so what? If you are really tall then please let us know when the rain is coming as it will hit you first!
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Some people will tell you that the height indicator in the Shape editor isn't accurate. But oddly enough if you rez a prim next to yourself and edit it to the the same height as you avatar, the values are the same. Everything in OpenSim is relative. But probably what most people do is set their height to be relative to the other avatars around them, thus, if everyone sets their size tall, everyone will be tall.
Another factor that affects this is the things around us, houses, etc. Again, we use real world cues to set our height against them. We all know how we look walking through a doorway, so we set our size accordingly, but what if the buildings are the wrong size to start? How can that be? Quite simple - camera angles. If the height of ceilings, etc. in the houses that are built in OpenSim matched the real world we would all be struggling around with the settings for our camera follow angle to be able see where we are going. The solution? Stealing a trick from the movies...make the ceilings and hence doorways taller so it is easier to follow avatars as they move around.
It is these cues that affect our relative perceptions of what our avatars should look like.
Height is also a key factor in determining the rest of our Shape. For this we can take lessons from Leonardo da Vinci and his famous work of the Vitruvian Man. You have probably all seen the picture of a man with his arms and legs spread inside a square and circle.
This works on lots of averages for the proportions of different parts of our body relative (there's that word again!) to our height.
Some examples (taken from da Vinci's own words but adapted here for ease) are -
The length of a person's outstretched arms (T-pose) is equal to their height.
From the hairline to the underside of the chin is one-tenth of a person's height.
From the bottom of the chin to the top of the head is one-eighth of a person's height.
From the top of the chest to the top of the head is one-sixth of a person's height.
From the crown of the chest to the roots of the hair is the seventh part of the whole person.
From the nipples to the crown of the head is one quarter of a person’s height.
The greatest width of the shoulders is at least one quarter of the height of a person.
From the elbow to the tip of the hand is the fifth part of a person’s height,
and from the elbow to the armpit is the one eighth of a person’s height.
The whole hand is the tenth part of person’s height.
The beginning of the genitals marks the middle of the person.
A foot is one seventh of person’s height.
From the sole of the foot to below the knee is one-quarter of person’s height.
From below the knee to the beginning of the genitals is one quarter of the height of a person.
The distance from the bottom of the chin to the nose and from the hairline to the eyebrows are each the same, and like the ear, one-third of the face.
But maybe the most important thing of all is that we are not all average. The real world and OpenSim would be quite boring places if we all looked alike. We should embrace difference and personal choice (provided it is legal) in all forms, including the way our avatars look.
Enjoy being who you want to be and the way you want to look. If you are short like me then so what? If you are really tall then please let us know when the rain is coming as it will hit you first!
One could say that Linden Labs screwed up twice.
Once was with how the official viewer measures the height of an avatar. Not to the top of the head, but to the eyes which means that it's inaccurate by about 6" or 15cm. Since it's inaccurate, users have stopped paying attention to the avatar height measurement altogether and started adjusting their avatars' height until it looked roughly okay.
And then there was the default camera angle. Classic 3-D third-person "platformer" angle, namely behind and way above the head. Every last viewer has taken this over.
For one, this means trouble in all buildings with ceiling heights under about 12' or 3.60m. If you're lucky, the camera will constantly collide with the ceiling. If you're unlucky, the camera will end up upstairs.
Besides, builders in both Second Life and OpenSim tend to take whatever height their camera is at for eye height. This explains some sims with ridonkulously oversized buildings because whoever built them has been flying all the time. But it also explains why houses are even too big for 9' avatars: Whoever built them built them as if the eyes of their avatar were as high as the default camera.
Both contributes to how oversized almost all buildings in OpenSim are. If your avatar is realistic, door handles may be at eye height, railings around porches are as high as your chin, and some windows are so high up the walls that the avatar needs a ladder to look outside. Even if the building has a kitchen built in, it's sometimes even too big for a 9' avatar because it had to be adapted to the overall proportions of the building in which the kitchen could double as a boat shed.
Sim builders like Xi Shi or Suzi Avonside build the houses on their sims at realistic sizes, but they constantly have to shrug off comments by users with oversized avatars that their buildings are too small.
The Firestorm Viewer has taken a first step at fixing the camera height issue. Version 6.6.8 has introduced Penny Patton's camera angle (see https://pennycow.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-improved-sl-came... and https://modemworld.me/tutorials__trashed/camera-offsets-pe...) with a few modifications as the new default camera preset. It places the camera behind the head with only minimal height offset.
All of a sudden, you can navigate the in-scale buildings in Ruritania or Paradwys without your camera bumping into the ceiling. And all of a sudden, you feel like a dwarf or a small child in many typical Second Life/OpenSim houses.
However, it's still only this one viewer in this one version which is buggy enough for many not to upgrade. A few older Firestorm versions have camera presets, but you have to enter the Penny Patton values yourself. All the other viewers don't have custom camera presets, and you have to jump through hoops to edit the camera position, if it's possible at all.
By the way, a side-effect of the default way-up-high camera are extremely long-legged avatars. From that top-down perspective, your legs look shorter in comparison with the rest of your avatar than they are. Since people aren't used to looking at other people from that angle, they find it looking weird. And they go and increase the length of their avatars' legs until they look okay from the default Linden camera angle.
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Once was with how the official viewer measures the height of an avatar. Not to the top of the head, but to the eyes which means that it's inaccurate by about 6" or 15cm. Since it's inaccurate, users have stopped paying attention to the avatar height measurement altogether and started adjusting their avatars' height until it looked roughly okay.
And then there was the default camera angle. Classic 3-D third-person "platformer" angle, namely behind and way above the head. Every last viewer has taken this over.
For one, this means trouble in all buildings with ceiling heights under about 12' or 3.60m. If you're lucky, the camera will constantly collide with the ceiling. If you're unlucky, the camera will end up upstairs.
Besides, builders in both Second Life and OpenSim tend to take whatever height their camera is at for eye height. This explains some sims with ridonkulously oversized buildings because whoever built them has been flying all the time. But it also explains why houses are even too big for 9' avatars: Whoever built them built them as if the eyes of their avatar were as high as the default camera.
Both contributes to how oversized almost all buildings in OpenSim are. If your avatar is realistic, door handles may be at eye height, railings around porches are as high as your chin, and some windows are so high up the walls that the avatar needs a ladder to look outside. Even if the building has a kitchen built in, it's sometimes even too big for a 9' avatar because it had to be adapted to the overall proportions of the building in which the kitchen could double as a boat shed.
Sim builders like Xi Shi or Suzi Avonside build the houses on their sims at realistic sizes, but they constantly have to shrug off comments by users with oversized avatars that their buildings are too small.
The Firestorm Viewer has taken a first step at fixing the camera height issue. Version 6.6.8 has introduced Penny Patton's camera angle (see https://pennycow.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-improved-sl-came... and https://modemworld.me/tutorials__trashed/camera-offsets-pe...) with a few modifications as the new default camera preset. It places the camera behind the head with only minimal height offset.
All of a sudden, you can navigate the in-scale buildings in Ruritania or Paradwys without your camera bumping into the ceiling. And all of a sudden, you feel like a dwarf or a small child in many typical Second Life/OpenSim houses.
However, it's still only this one viewer in this one version which is buggy enough for many not to upgrade. A few older Firestorm versions have camera presets, but you have to enter the Penny Patton values yourself. All the other viewers don't have custom camera presets, and you have to jump through hoops to edit the camera position, if it's possible at all.
By the way, a side-effect of the default way-up-high camera are extremely long-legged avatars. From that top-down perspective, your legs look shorter in comparison with the rest of your avatar than they are. Since people aren't used to looking at other people from that angle, they find it looking weird. And they go and increase the length of their avatars' legs until they look okay from the default Linden camera angle.
There is no such thing as a "correct height" for avatars.
If OpenSim user A with your typical pea-headed, T-Rex-armed 2.50m male avatar barges in and says that the "correct height" for a male avatar is 2.40m or 8', it implies that everyone with a realistically-sized avatar is "doing it wrong" and has to "correct" their shapes.
Of course, OpenSim user B with a realistic avatar will protest and say that realistic height is or should be "correct". And those Second Life-style giants are just plain ridiculous, as are childgates configured to kick and ban female avatars as tall as the real-life average height of Western women.
Then OpenSim user B is being confronted with stuff like, "The viewer doesn't show the correct height anyway." The official Second Life viewer doesn't because it measures the avatar height up to the eyes; Firestorm measures it correctly. Or, "all furniture is adjusted for 8' avatars anyway." But it can be resized. Or, "That's how everybody does it anyway." Because way too many OpenSim users use the shapes that come with their heads unmodified, and these shapes are completely unrealistic. Or, "Male avatars in SL are 9' as well." Only that OpenSim isn't Second Life. And even in Second Life, that arms race of giant guys is over. If you still have a 9' avatar, you've spent quite a while under a rock.
I wouldn't be surprised if many realistic female avatars refuse to dance with oversized male avatars. They're tired of being told to make their realistic avatars taller.
It's basically the same as Second Life proportions (9:1 to 12:1 pea heads) vs realistic proportions (7.5:1 to 8:1 heads which make you look like a kid in comparison), T. Rex arms that barely reach your crotch ("That's how everyone does it!") vs realistic arms with your fingertips in the middle of your thighs ("gorilla arms") or standard female bodies (implying that petite = underage) vs petite female bodies (what most actual real-life women look like) vs "hourglass" female bodies with hips several times as wide as the waist (implying that nobody would want to fuck an Athena or a Ruth2 if a Decadence-HG or an eBody Reborn is around).
But if you ask me, I'm OpenSim user B, and I say that the "correct height" is realistic height. Wouldn't be the first time that someone calls me "dumb" for having the "wrong" opinion.
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If OpenSim user A with your typical pea-headed, T-Rex-armed 2.50m male avatar barges in and says that the "correct height" for a male avatar is 2.40m or 8', it implies that everyone with a realistically-sized avatar is "doing it wrong" and has to "correct" their shapes.
Of course, OpenSim user B with a realistic avatar will protest and say that realistic height is or should be "correct". And those Second Life-style giants are just plain ridiculous, as are childgates configured to kick and ban female avatars as tall as the real-life average height of Western women.
Then OpenSim user B is being confronted with stuff like, "The viewer doesn't show the correct height anyway." The official Second Life viewer doesn't because it measures the avatar height up to the eyes; Firestorm measures it correctly. Or, "all furniture is adjusted for 8' avatars anyway." But it can be resized. Or, "That's how everybody does it anyway." Because way too many OpenSim users use the shapes that come with their heads unmodified, and these shapes are completely unrealistic. Or, "Male avatars in SL are 9' as well." Only that OpenSim isn't Second Life. And even in Second Life, that arms race of giant guys is over. If you still have a 9' avatar, you've spent quite a while under a rock.
I wouldn't be surprised if many realistic female avatars refuse to dance with oversized male avatars. They're tired of being told to make their realistic avatars taller.
It's basically the same as Second Life proportions (9:1 to 12:1 pea heads) vs realistic proportions (7.5:1 to 8:1 heads which make you look like a kid in comparison), T. Rex arms that barely reach your crotch ("That's how everyone does it!") vs realistic arms with your fingertips in the middle of your thighs ("gorilla arms") or standard female bodies (implying that petite = underage) vs petite female bodies (what most actual real-life women look like) vs "hourglass" female bodies with hips several times as wide as the waist (implying that nobody would want to fuck an Athena or a Ruth2 if a Decadence-HG or an eBody Reborn is around).
But if you ask me, I'm OpenSim user B, and I say that the "correct height" is realistic height. Wouldn't be the first time that someone calls me "dumb" for having the "wrong" opinion.
I also set a realistic height my avatar, and you are right, there are giant women who want me to raise the height of the avatar.
I've noticed that I interact better with vehicles and other home furnishings, but I've also noticed that some classic avatars are made with super tall shapes, such as some ReactOS classics that I have in inventory are super tall.
In theory everything should be made with the actual proportions, in mt or feet as you want for your national unit of measurement. But still I notice that having an avi with proportions closer to reality seems to be a chore for interacting with some objects.
But it is true, there is no correct height, you made a very sensible point, there are huge chairs and "normal" chairs.
this thing drives me crazy! :)
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I've noticed that I interact better with vehicles and other home furnishings, but I've also noticed that some classic avatars are made with super tall shapes, such as some ReactOS classics that I have in inventory are super tall.
In theory everything should be made with the actual proportions, in mt or feet as you want for your national unit of measurement. But still I notice that having an avi with proportions closer to reality seems to be a chore for interacting with some objects.
But it is true, there is no correct height, you made a very sensible point, there are huge chairs and "normal" chairs.
this thing drives me crazy! :)