|
Threads
View context
I got mine here:
https://opensimworld.com/hop/74730
or copy this into the map:
hg.osgrid.org:80:OpenSimWorld
like(0)
https://opensimworld.com/hop/74730
or copy this into the map:
hg.osgrid.org:80:OpenSimWorld
View context
While this is good, It requires more than just the viewer for it to work for the end user. What advantage does Mumble have over Discord or Skype, other than the server is running on your machine? Does having the Mumble client installed automatically connect you to the Mumble server of the sim/parcel you are visiting? Or do you have to ask for access/get invited to the Mumble server everywhere you go?
I would be great to have a solution where voice is on by default and people can opt out rather than off by default and opt in.
I have a dyslexic friend and he finds reading and typing very difficult and not having voice here is very isolating for him. So he tends to just stick to Second Life.
I was looking into Free Switch as a Vivox alternative, but man it looks complicated to set up. I have read through the setup tutorial and there are many parts of the tutorial where not enough detail was provided so I got stuck and gave up.
Here is the Free Switch tutorial if someone would like to have a go at it.
https://wiki.osgrid.org/index.php/Freeswitch_HowTo2
I would love to have a better tutorial written so an idiot like me can understand it. A video would be very nice too.
I assume Free Switch is open source software? If so, then would it be possible for a clever person to package up everything required to run it into an easy to configure package designed to work with Opensim?
It needs to be made easier to use setup. It would be great if all you had to do was extract it to a folder on your server and run it? Obviously there would be some config.ini where you have to input your network stuff, but for me actually getting the program to run is the main hurdle.
like(1)
I would be great to have a solution where voice is on by default and people can opt out rather than off by default and opt in.
I have a dyslexic friend and he finds reading and typing very difficult and not having voice here is very isolating for him. So he tends to just stick to Second Life.
I was looking into Free Switch as a Vivox alternative, but man it looks complicated to set up. I have read through the setup tutorial and there are many parts of the tutorial where not enough detail was provided so I got stuck and gave up.
Here is the Free Switch tutorial if someone would like to have a go at it.
https://wiki.osgrid.org/index.php/Freeswitch_HowTo2
I would love to have a better tutorial written so an idiot like me can understand it. A video would be very nice too.
I assume Free Switch is open source software? If so, then would it be possible for a clever person to package up everything required to run it into an easy to configure package designed to work with Opensim?
It needs to be made easier to use setup. It would be great if all you had to do was extract it to a folder on your server and run it? Obviously there would be some config.ini where you have to input your network stuff, but for me actually getting the program to run is the main hurdle.
In terms of advantage, Mumble would offer enhanced privacy, over especially Skype, which will be eavesdropped on by those people in Richmond, (not sure about Discord, but it's probably safer to assume that the walls have ears there too) but neither of those are any worse than Vivox in that respect. Probably for most, the privacy issue is a somewhat moot point, but there are important use case scenarios where I'm sure Opensim is being ruled out due to the lack of a secure voice application.
Some years ago there was the Whisper/Mumble combination that required the changing the code on the viewer so that Mumble would work, but that project didn't progress, probably due to a combination of lack of demand/lack of technical ability and availability of Vivox. More recently, since it's become known that 'free' access to Vivox is coming to an end there has been the EchoVoice project, which has basically come to nothing due to the funding required to get it anywhere near ready. The $60,000 cost is way beyond what Opensim will bear, though I'd guess on a per capita basis of Opensim users, it will only amount to a dollar or two each.
Going forward, I think that is the way we need to start thinking about the development needs of Opensim. We all get a lot from it being here, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The project seems to run on a shoestring, which is all very well, but if there were more money available, then not only would we see faster progress, but also new features, such as an integrated voice module, and maybe even all sorts of cool stuff that could take Opensim off in even more of a different direction to Second Life. Interesting discussion of the issues here: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2022/12/vivox-voice-repl...
liked(1)
Some years ago there was the Whisper/Mumble combination that required the changing the code on the viewer so that Mumble would work, but that project didn't progress, probably due to a combination of lack of demand/lack of technical ability and availability of Vivox. More recently, since it's become known that 'free' access to Vivox is coming to an end there has been the EchoVoice project, which has basically come to nothing due to the funding required to get it anywhere near ready. The $60,000 cost is way beyond what Opensim will bear, though I'd guess on a per capita basis of Opensim users, it will only amount to a dollar or two each.
Going forward, I think that is the way we need to start thinking about the development needs of Opensim. We all get a lot from it being here, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The project seems to run on a shoestring, which is all very well, but if there were more money available, then not only would we see faster progress, but also new features, such as an integrated voice module, and maybe even all sorts of cool stuff that could take Opensim off in even more of a different direction to Second Life. Interesting discussion of the issues here: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2022/12/vivox-voice-repl...
Well we all know that nothing on the internet is secure or private. I expect the the owner of a Mumble server could be eavesdropping and be recording everything if they so desired. After all if the owner can listen to the voice chat, then they can record it. That goes for anyone participating in the chat too. If you really have to divulge sensitive information that you wouldn't want intercepted then here is really not the place for that.
I would just like the ability to talk to people in world without everyone having to run a 3rd party program along side the viewer. I'm not even bothered about 3d spacial audio, though that would be a bonus. The one feature that is important is to be able to mute people if they are annoying.
As for funding 60k for the project. I don't think many people would be willing to risk donating to it, not knowing if they will ever get the project delivered. I'm not a fan of the Kick Starter model. Would be more in the open source spirit to beg for donations on the download page of the finished product. Sure the gamble is on the developer, but I would much rather donate to something that I can use now than the promise that something might not get done.
Going back to Free Switch, I assume its an open source project. If that is the case and seeing as it has been proven possible to get it working in Opensim then wouldn't it be less work to take that as a starting point and streamline it to be more simple to setup for Opensim?
like(0)
I would just like the ability to talk to people in world without everyone having to run a 3rd party program along side the viewer. I'm not even bothered about 3d spacial audio, though that would be a bonus. The one feature that is important is to be able to mute people if they are annoying.
As for funding 60k for the project. I don't think many people would be willing to risk donating to it, not knowing if they will ever get the project delivered. I'm not a fan of the Kick Starter model. Would be more in the open source spirit to beg for donations on the download page of the finished product. Sure the gamble is on the developer, but I would much rather donate to something that I can use now than the promise that something might not get done.
Going back to Free Switch, I assume its an open source project. If that is the case and seeing as it has been proven possible to get it working in Opensim then wouldn't it be less work to take that as a starting point and streamline it to be more simple to setup for Opensim?
Allegedly Freeswitch can be got to work, but it's complicated and even then, there is no guarantee that it will work consistently, and still involves running a server (unless of course the grid runs its own Freeswitch server, which would be feasible on some girds, but not on others e.g. OSGrid, as all but the Plazas are run on widely distributed servers around the world, and would thus need to run their own instances. Hardly anyone uses it, as usually people struggle with it and fail.
As Opensim has precisely one person working on the core code, it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to invest the time developing a simple plugin so that it works with Opensim, and in any event, Freeswitch, being Third Party Software means that anyone who wants to use it is pretty much on their own. From what I can see, it's about as streamlined to install as it's ever going to get, and whislt is doable, with patience, there is a lot of tweaking to do, all without guarantee of success.
From what you say, maybe Skype or Discord would be a better option for you as you aren't bothered about privacy, and aren't willing to fund an alternative. Discord certainly seems to be widely used by the gaming community.
It’s certainly possible that in the future we could have our own voice solution for Opensim, but it’s more likely to be Mumble based than it is Freeswitch simply because of the spatial element, which inworld is pretty much an expectation. It’s also more than likely that any such soution will have to be paid for, somehow.
like(0)
As Opensim has precisely one person working on the core code, it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to invest the time developing a simple plugin so that it works with Opensim, and in any event, Freeswitch, being Third Party Software means that anyone who wants to use it is pretty much on their own. From what I can see, it's about as streamlined to install as it's ever going to get, and whislt is doable, with patience, there is a lot of tweaking to do, all without guarantee of success.
From what you say, maybe Skype or Discord would be a better option for you as you aren't bothered about privacy, and aren't willing to fund an alternative. Discord certainly seems to be widely used by the gaming community.
It’s certainly possible that in the future we could have our own voice solution for Opensim, but it’s more likely to be Mumble based than it is Freeswitch simply because of the spatial element, which inworld is pretty much an expectation. It’s also more than likely that any such soution will have to be paid for, somehow.
I am clearly not an expert in this area and have no real idea what goes into making a workable solution.
I would be willing to pay a one time fee for a well documented easy to use solution if one was available, but I wouldn't throw money blindly at a project that might never materialize.
I only mention Free Switch as I have seen options to enable it in the open sim.ini files. I also assume that if you get free switch running the end user doesn't need any other software installed to be able to talk with others. I assume Free Switch latches onto the existing code that Vivox uses. I don't like the idea of having to have another program like Discord/Mumble/Skype in order to talk. I would much prefer to install something onto my server to get voice working and the user just connects to it seamlessly through the viewer.
Anyway whatever happens I hope its for the better.
like(0)
I would be willing to pay a one time fee for a well documented easy to use solution if one was available, but I wouldn't throw money blindly at a project that might never materialize.
I only mention Free Switch as I have seen options to enable it in the open sim.ini files. I also assume that if you get free switch running the end user doesn't need any other software installed to be able to talk with others. I assume Free Switch latches onto the existing code that Vivox uses. I don't like the idea of having to have another program like Discord/Mumble/Skype in order to talk. I would much prefer to install something onto my server to get voice working and the user just connects to it seamlessly through the viewer.
Anyway whatever happens I hope its for the better.
Unfortunately I believe that Freeswitch has to be installed and run as a service separately of the viewer, and the viewer then connected to the service. Sadly, open source and 'well documented' rarely go together.
Whichever way it goes, you are going to have to connect to a server somewhere to get a voice service, whether that's an external server, as would the case with Discord,Skype or Vivox, or a server you run yourself, such as would be the case with Mumble or Freeswitch.
like(0)
Whichever way it goes, you are going to have to connect to a server somewhere to get a voice service, whether that's an external server, as would the case with Discord,Skype or Vivox, or a server you run yourself, such as would be the case with Mumble or Freeswitch.
Yes I'm aware you need to run Free Switch separately from the viewer. What I'm saying is the average visitor to my region won't need to do a thing to have voice working if Free Switch is set up. They don't need to run another program like Mumble/Discord or whatever, and then have to manually connect to the server/chat room or service. They just teleport in and voice is working.
What would be nice is to have a detailed tutorial on how to set it up. The tutorial I found left out several things that a novice like me needs to know for it to work.
This is why I wondered if it was possible for some clever person to gather all the dependencies and pre configure the config files with sane defaults that work for Opensim and package it in a way that would be simple to run.
It would be simple if all you had to do was download and extract a zip file, edit a config file with your ports and host name, then run a file to start the service. Sadly its way more complicated than that, and I feel it could be improved upon quite easily.
like(0)
What would be nice is to have a detailed tutorial on how to set it up. The tutorial I found left out several things that a novice like me needs to know for it to work.
This is why I wondered if it was possible for some clever person to gather all the dependencies and pre configure the config files with sane defaults that work for Opensim and package it in a way that would be simple to run.
It would be simple if all you had to do was download and extract a zip file, edit a config file with your ports and host name, then run a file to start the service. Sadly its way more complicated than that, and I feel it could be improved upon quite easily.
View context
This is so true. I set my viewer to 350k complexity which is the maximum setting before turning the limit off entirely. 350k is way more than you need to have a great looking avatar. If you decide to go over that then you are just a grey blob to me. I don't moan at the offending person or even acknowledge they are an ugly grey blob. The only time I let them know is if they ask me if I like their outfit. I find it kind of funny to let them run around looking like crap to other people. I don't really blame the user for it, its more on the creators that are too lazy to optimize their mesh.
I saw someone with over a million complexity. I checked her profile and she obviously had people moaning about it to her as her profile said "modern viewers are more than capable of rendering high complexity without any issues deal with it"
Well yes, my viewer could render that, but if everyone in a packed venue was like that then it would be a terrible experience. The way to give a good experience to everyone is not to hog all the polygons and leave some for others to use. Sharing is caring apparently.
So when I see a grey blob in the wild I feel grateful they are saving me even more FPS than a fully rendered person and that their efforts in trying to impress me with their fashion has been a total waste of their time. They may as well be a floating name tag at that point.
like(0)
I saw someone with over a million complexity. I checked her profile and she obviously had people moaning about it to her as her profile said "modern viewers are more than capable of rendering high complexity without any issues deal with it"
Well yes, my viewer could render that, but if everyone in a packed venue was like that then it would be a terrible experience. The way to give a good experience to everyone is not to hog all the polygons and leave some for others to use. Sharing is caring apparently.
So when I see a grey blob in the wild I feel grateful they are saving me even more FPS than a fully rendered person and that their efforts in trying to impress me with their fashion has been a total waste of their time. They may as well be a floating name tag at that point.
Personally, I would rather that the viewer devs would have simply made high complexity avatars invisible rather than an ugly gray blob that shows on my screen. It almost seems to me that it takes as much to render the gray blob as the fully rendered Avatar as I have seen no difference in my frame rate when I turn complexity down to something like 20K where almost everyone is a gray blob. Your mileage may vary.
like(0)
If it isn't making much difference in performance for you then your computer might be struggling to render the world already.
As an example. I go to my favorite hang out spot when nobody is there and see what my average FPS is. (hopefully if the place is well designed I should be getting around 60fps in my case)
Then I go back when its busy and check again. I will then play with the Max number of non imposter avatars until my fps returns to an acceptable level. I found for my computer setting the max non imposter avatars to around 8 is a good balance for my system. Giving me an fps of 45+ with my max complexity of 350k. Now not everyone will be 350k complexity, but if they were all near that then I might have to adjust the max non imposters down a bit more.
Its all about trade offs. Trying to balance FPS with looks is tricky and depending on your hardware the world could look terrible if you want a smooth frame rate.
This is why having your complexity as low as possible is good as it allows more players to have more avatars on screen. If you hog all the polygons for your avatar then other people cant use them. Hence why they have the option to turn people into grey blobs.
I think of it as a pool that we borrow from. I have set my max complexity to 350k x 8. So if the total complexity of all avatars in the scene exceeds 2800000 then The pool is empty for me. The pool will be a different size for each machine. It is up to you to find out the size of your pool. This is not easy as you have to consider the base load of rendering the world around you too. This is different everywhere you go. I often have to change settings on the fly if i want to keep a good frame rate.
I wish there was one good setting for any given system, but this isn't a well optimized game where careful consideration to polygon counts has been carefully crafted to be consistent everywhere you go.
liked(1)
As an example. I go to my favorite hang out spot when nobody is there and see what my average FPS is. (hopefully if the place is well designed I should be getting around 60fps in my case)
Then I go back when its busy and check again. I will then play with the Max number of non imposter avatars until my fps returns to an acceptable level. I found for my computer setting the max non imposter avatars to around 8 is a good balance for my system. Giving me an fps of 45+ with my max complexity of 350k. Now not everyone will be 350k complexity, but if they were all near that then I might have to adjust the max non imposters down a bit more.
Its all about trade offs. Trying to balance FPS with looks is tricky and depending on your hardware the world could look terrible if you want a smooth frame rate.
This is why having your complexity as low as possible is good as it allows more players to have more avatars on screen. If you hog all the polygons for your avatar then other people cant use them. Hence why they have the option to turn people into grey blobs.
I think of it as a pool that we borrow from. I have set my max complexity to 350k x 8. So if the total complexity of all avatars in the scene exceeds 2800000 then The pool is empty for me. The pool will be a different size for each machine. It is up to you to find out the size of your pool. This is not easy as you have to consider the base load of rendering the world around you too. This is different everywhere you go. I often have to change settings on the fly if i want to keep a good frame rate.
I wish there was one good setting for any given system, but this isn't a well optimized game where careful consideration to polygon counts has been carefully crafted to be consistent everywhere you go.
I regularly attend events and clubs in S/L with 50-70 avatars with no limit set to complexity while still running another viewer on my own grid and don't see much of an issue. You do bring up a good point though about the Max Avatars setting. It does not affect the Complexity but does have an impact on FPS. So I would rather have complexity set to no limit and lower the Max Avatar setting so at least my view is not made ugly by grey blobs. In a club or event, quite a few are static anyway so lowering that setting ups my framerate while still allowing me to see everyone. I'm also not too worried about maintaining a 60 FPS and don't mind it dropping to even 20 in a more static setting. It is a personal thing with what one finds acceptable so it is good to keep in mind there are 3 predominant settings that affect FPS, Draw distance, Max Avatars and Complexity.
liked(1)
View context
Thanks for the reply :)
I might be missing something here, but the boat is a mesh object and it is physical yet when I look through the transparent window I still see the water clipping into the boat.
The old invisiprim trick does still work but only if you turn the graphics down to low. Nobody wants to look at the world with those settings unless they have no other choice.
If I make a prim physical and put the transparent texture on it the all I see is water and not what is under the water.
Like I said maybe I don't understand what you are saying, but simply applying a transparent texture to any type of object does not seem to hide the water for me. (unless its an invisiprim with my graphics set to low)
like(0)
I might be missing something here, but the boat is a mesh object and it is physical yet when I look through the transparent window I still see the water clipping into the boat.
The old invisiprim trick does still work but only if you turn the graphics down to low. Nobody wants to look at the world with those settings unless they have no other choice.
If I make a prim physical and put the transparent texture on it the all I see is water and not what is under the water.
Like I said maybe I don't understand what you are saying, but simply applying a transparent texture to any type of object does not seem to hide the water for me. (unless its an invisiprim with my graphics set to low)
If you make a mesh object that is the same size as the boat, and then make the mesh object invisible, the water will not be visible through the boat.
like(0)
That trick worked for me in the past, let me try again maybe something changed. Yes, it must have to do with the lighting. You can set the boat deeper but you have to turn off advanced lighting. Cause you are right this isn't working unless you change the lighting.
like(0)
View context
it magically fixed itself. Before the prims that displayed the text were corrupted and were showing up as a path cut cube and it was unable to show any texture on them at all. Suddenly it corrected itself. Must have been an issue with the asset server?
Very strange but also very cool to have it working! Thanks for sharing!
like(0)
Very strange but also very cool to have it working! Thanks for sharing!
View context
This looks really useful, sadly I also can not get it to work. I deleted the * and it is still just black. it didn't even have any text on the original copy on your sim. Are there any instructions on how its meant to work?
Is there meant to be a "Slave XyzzyText - 16 Char" script in each of the mesh planes that display text? (because they are empty)
Also are the mesh planes meant to be linked in a certain order? They don't appear to be linked in a sequence like the older twisted prim type of message boards.
It would be really cool to get this working, Thanks.
like(0)
Is there meant to be a "Slave XyzzyText - 16 Char" script in each of the mesh planes that display text? (because they are empty)
Also are the mesh planes meant to be linked in a certain order? They don't appear to be linked in a sequence like the older twisted prim type of message boards.
It would be really cool to get this working, Thanks.
Thanks for pointing out the "black screen isisue".
I can confirm that after cleaning my viewer cache, indeed the text doesnt display. So, further research is required at this point.
It's always a good idea though to verify assumptions and share what you know as opposite to what you think you know. Much more helpful. I'll get back on thisone soon.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=xyzzyte...
liked(1)
I can confirm that after cleaning my viewer cache, indeed the text doesnt display. So, further research is required at this point.
It's always a good idea though to verify assumptions and share what you know as opposite to what you think you know. Much more helpful. I'll get back on thisone soon.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=xyzzyte...
View context
Thanks for the reply, I have tried teleporting from many different locations on the HG and your region is the only place that throws up this "unable to verify identity" message. I have never had that message trying to get to any other location.
Some places want you to accept their TOS before they will allow you to enter, so I assumed this was required to enter your region. Hence why I asked you how I verify my identity. Something clearly is not working right somewhere, and if I have to teleport from a specific unspecified region to get there then something is not working properly. Weather that is a problem on my end or on yours I'm unsure. All I know is this only happens when trying to get to your region and nowhere else I have ever been.
like(0)
Some places want you to accept their TOS before they will allow you to enter, so I assumed this was required to enter your region. Hence why I asked you how I verify my identity. Something clearly is not working right somewhere, and if I have to teleport from a specific unspecified region to get there then something is not working properly. Weather that is a problem on my end or on yours I'm unsure. All I know is this only happens when trying to get to your region and nowhere else I have ever been.
It's odd for sure. lots of other people who had issues eventually got in. Do you have a secondary account, like a free Kitely avatar you can try with? You're also welcome to sign up for a free Destiny Grid account. You can use me as a reference. https://destiny-grid.pleasecome.in/sledjchisl.fcgi/account...
like(0)
View context
Interesting thread. I would love to know the differences between the various physics engines too.
If you have a long standing sim that has been on Xengine for donkeys years then I can see the argument for not switching over, but if you are just starting out then I don't see any reason not to use Yengine.
I have just got back into opensim in the last few months after a 9 year break. It has improved a lot since then. It is most likely the default option for the script and physics engines that made the difference.
like(0)
If you have a long standing sim that has been on Xengine for donkeys years then I can see the argument for not switching over, but if you are just starting out then I don't see any reason not to use Yengine.
I have just got back into opensim in the last few months after a 9 year break. It has improved a lot since then. It is most likely the default option for the script and physics engines that made the difference.
View context
I found a work around for making pauses. It involves making each journey its own note card, then having a script at each stop that senses the arrival of the vehicle and waits for a period before saying the name of the next note card to load on the channel set in the vehicle script.
So you make the way points from the start to the first stop then save card. Then clear the points and continue making way points to the next stop, then save card. Do this for all the stops. You will then have a bunch of note cards that you can start with a chat command. You then just need a script that detects when the vehicle has arrived. This can be a sensor or a collision. Once the vehicle is detected, you set a delay before saying the name of the next note card to start on the chat channel you are using in the vehicle script.
I haven't fully tested this, but I have started the vehicle by making a prim say the name of the note card when I touch it, and I have made it generate multiple note cards too. So I'm confident this should work.
EDIT: just uploaded a simple script to help with pausing at waypoints
https://opensimworld.com/library?view=103
like(0)
So you make the way points from the start to the first stop then save card. Then clear the points and continue making way points to the next stop, then save card. Do this for all the stops. You will then have a bunch of note cards that you can start with a chat command. You then just need a script that detects when the vehicle has arrived. This can be a sensor or a collision. Once the vehicle is detected, you set a delay before saying the name of the next note card to start on the chat channel you are using in the vehicle script.
I haven't fully tested this, but I have started the vehicle by making a prim say the name of the note card when I touch it, and I have made it generate multiple note cards too. So I'm confident this should work.
EDIT: just uploaded a simple script to help with pausing at waypoints
https://opensimworld.com/library?view=103
You can change the fourth column in the notecard RIDE to create a stop. Enter the number of seconds to stop at each specific point (0 = no stopping)
like(0)
I thought that the last number was not working after reading the comments below. I will have to give it a try. Thanks!
Though I quite like separating out the stops into separate note cards as it makes adjusting a route at a later date a lot less bothersome. You can simply redo a single section without having to redo the entire route.
Thanks for the really handy script, I have had a lot of fun with it.
like(0)
Though I quite like separating out the stops into separate note cards as it makes adjusting a route at a later date a lot less bothersome. You can simply redo a single section without having to redo the entire route.
Thanks for the really handy script, I have had a lot of fun with it.