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Suzi_Avonside✦ @Suzi_Avonside
Caerdydd, Cymru
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Wedi bod gwmpas am sbel... Ers 2010 yn achos OSG |
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I contacted Heart Botanicals on the e-mail address supplied on their blog, and this was the response:
"
Hello Suzi,
Any item/product that is listed under this link ..... https://www.kitely.com/market?store=3351293
is legitimate and uploaded to the Kitely Marketplace by myself and Dolly Heart 🙂
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Lilith"
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"
Hello Suzi,
Any item/product that is listed under this link ..... https://www.kitely.com/market?store=3351293
is legitimate and uploaded to the Kitely Marketplace by myself and Dolly Heart 🙂
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Lilith"
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In terms of advantage, Mumble would offer enhanced privacy, over especially Skype, which will be eavesdropped on by those people in Richmond, (not sure about Discord, but it's probably safer to assume that the walls have ears there too) but neither of those are any worse than Vivox in that respect. Probably for most, the privacy issue is a somewhat moot point, but there are important use case scenarios where I'm sure Opensim is being ruled out due to the lack of a secure voice application.
Some years ago there was the Whisper/Mumble combination that required the changing the code on the viewer so that Mumble would work, but that project didn't progress, probably due to a combination of lack of demand/lack of technical ability and availability of Vivox. More recently, since it's become known that 'free' access to Vivox is coming to an end there has been the EchoVoice project, which has basically come to nothing due to the funding required to get it anywhere near ready. The $60,000 cost is way beyond what Opensim will bear, though I'd guess on a per capita basis of Opensim users, it will only amount to a dollar or two each.
Going forward, I think that is the way we need to start thinking about the development needs of Opensim. We all get a lot from it being here, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The project seems to run on a shoestring, which is all very well, but if there were more money available, then not only would we see faster progress, but also new features, such as an integrated voice module, and maybe even all sorts of cool stuff that could take Opensim off in even more of a different direction to Second Life. Interesting discussion of the issues here: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2022/12/vivox-voice-repl...
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Some years ago there was the Whisper/Mumble combination that required the changing the code on the viewer so that Mumble would work, but that project didn't progress, probably due to a combination of lack of demand/lack of technical ability and availability of Vivox. More recently, since it's become known that 'free' access to Vivox is coming to an end there has been the EchoVoice project, which has basically come to nothing due to the funding required to get it anywhere near ready. The $60,000 cost is way beyond what Opensim will bear, though I'd guess on a per capita basis of Opensim users, it will only amount to a dollar or two each.
Going forward, I think that is the way we need to start thinking about the development needs of Opensim. We all get a lot from it being here, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The project seems to run on a shoestring, which is all very well, but if there were more money available, then not only would we see faster progress, but also new features, such as an integrated voice module, and maybe even all sorts of cool stuff that could take Opensim off in even more of a different direction to Second Life. Interesting discussion of the issues here: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2022/12/vivox-voice-repl...
Well we all know that nothing on the internet is secure or private. I expect the the owner of a Mumble server could be eavesdropping and be recording everything if they so desired. After all if the owner can listen to the voice chat, then they can record it. That goes for anyone participating in the chat too. If you really have to divulge sensitive information that you wouldn't want intercepted then here is really not the place for that.
I would just like the ability to talk to people in world without everyone having to run a 3rd party program along side the viewer. I'm not even bothered about 3d spacial audio, though that would be a bonus. The one feature that is important is to be able to mute people if they are annoying.
As for funding 60k for the project. I don't think many people would be willing to risk donating to it, not knowing if they will ever get the project delivered. I'm not a fan of the Kick Starter model. Would be more in the open source spirit to beg for donations on the download page of the finished product. Sure the gamble is on the developer, but I would much rather donate to something that I can use now than the promise that something might not get done.
Going back to Free Switch, I assume its an open source project. If that is the case and seeing as it has been proven possible to get it working in Opensim then wouldn't it be less work to take that as a starting point and streamline it to be more simple to setup for Opensim?
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I would just like the ability to talk to people in world without everyone having to run a 3rd party program along side the viewer. I'm not even bothered about 3d spacial audio, though that would be a bonus. The one feature that is important is to be able to mute people if they are annoying.
As for funding 60k for the project. I don't think many people would be willing to risk donating to it, not knowing if they will ever get the project delivered. I'm not a fan of the Kick Starter model. Would be more in the open source spirit to beg for donations on the download page of the finished product. Sure the gamble is on the developer, but I would much rather donate to something that I can use now than the promise that something might not get done.
Going back to Free Switch, I assume its an open source project. If that is the case and seeing as it has been proven possible to get it working in Opensim then wouldn't it be less work to take that as a starting point and streamline it to be more simple to setup for Opensim?
Allegedly Freeswitch can be got to work, but it's complicated and even then, there is no guarantee that it will work consistently, and still involves running a server (unless of course the grid runs its own Freeswitch server, which would be feasible on some girds, but not on others e.g. OSGrid, as all but the Plazas are run on widely distributed servers around the world, and would thus need to run their own instances. Hardly anyone uses it, as usually people struggle with it and fail.
As Opensim has precisely one person working on the core code, it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to invest the time developing a simple plugin so that it works with Opensim, and in any event, Freeswitch, being Third Party Software means that anyone who wants to use it is pretty much on their own. From what I can see, it's about as streamlined to install as it's ever going to get, and whislt is doable, with patience, there is a lot of tweaking to do, all without guarantee of success.
From what you say, maybe Skype or Discord would be a better option for you as you aren't bothered about privacy, and aren't willing to fund an alternative. Discord certainly seems to be widely used by the gaming community.
It’s certainly possible that in the future we could have our own voice solution for Opensim, but it’s more likely to be Mumble based than it is Freeswitch simply because of the spatial element, which inworld is pretty much an expectation. It’s also more than likely that any such soution will have to be paid for, somehow.
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As Opensim has precisely one person working on the core code, it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to invest the time developing a simple plugin so that it works with Opensim, and in any event, Freeswitch, being Third Party Software means that anyone who wants to use it is pretty much on their own. From what I can see, it's about as streamlined to install as it's ever going to get, and whislt is doable, with patience, there is a lot of tweaking to do, all without guarantee of success.
From what you say, maybe Skype or Discord would be a better option for you as you aren't bothered about privacy, and aren't willing to fund an alternative. Discord certainly seems to be widely used by the gaming community.
It’s certainly possible that in the future we could have our own voice solution for Opensim, but it’s more likely to be Mumble based than it is Freeswitch simply because of the spatial element, which inworld is pretty much an expectation. It’s also more than likely that any such soution will have to be paid for, somehow.
I am clearly not an expert in this area and have no real idea what goes into making a workable solution.
I would be willing to pay a one time fee for a well documented easy to use solution if one was available, but I wouldn't throw money blindly at a project that might never materialize.
I only mention Free Switch as I have seen options to enable it in the open sim.ini files. I also assume that if you get free switch running the end user doesn't need any other software installed to be able to talk with others. I assume Free Switch latches onto the existing code that Vivox uses. I don't like the idea of having to have another program like Discord/Mumble/Skype in order to talk. I would much prefer to install something onto my server to get voice working and the user just connects to it seamlessly through the viewer.
Anyway whatever happens I hope its for the better.
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I would be willing to pay a one time fee for a well documented easy to use solution if one was available, but I wouldn't throw money blindly at a project that might never materialize.
I only mention Free Switch as I have seen options to enable it in the open sim.ini files. I also assume that if you get free switch running the end user doesn't need any other software installed to be able to talk with others. I assume Free Switch latches onto the existing code that Vivox uses. I don't like the idea of having to have another program like Discord/Mumble/Skype in order to talk. I would much prefer to install something onto my server to get voice working and the user just connects to it seamlessly through the viewer.
Anyway whatever happens I hope its for the better.
Unfortunately I believe that Freeswitch has to be installed and run as a service separately of the viewer, and the viewer then connected to the service. Sadly, open source and 'well documented' rarely go together.
Whichever way it goes, you are going to have to connect to a server somewhere to get a voice service, whether that's an external server, as would the case with Discord,Skype or Vivox, or a server you run yourself, such as would be the case with Mumble or Freeswitch.
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Whichever way it goes, you are going to have to connect to a server somewhere to get a voice service, whether that's an external server, as would the case with Discord,Skype or Vivox, or a server you run yourself, such as would be the case with Mumble or Freeswitch.
Yes I'm aware you need to run Free Switch separately from the viewer. What I'm saying is the average visitor to my region won't need to do a thing to have voice working if Free Switch is set up. They don't need to run another program like Mumble/Discord or whatever, and then have to manually connect to the server/chat room or service. They just teleport in and voice is working.
What would be nice is to have a detailed tutorial on how to set it up. The tutorial I found left out several things that a novice like me needs to know for it to work.
This is why I wondered if it was possible for some clever person to gather all the dependencies and pre configure the config files with sane defaults that work for Opensim and package it in a way that would be simple to run.
It would be simple if all you had to do was download and extract a zip file, edit a config file with your ports and host name, then run a file to start the service. Sadly its way more complicated than that, and I feel it could be improved upon quite easily.
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What would be nice is to have a detailed tutorial on how to set it up. The tutorial I found left out several things that a novice like me needs to know for it to work.
This is why I wondered if it was possible for some clever person to gather all the dependencies and pre configure the config files with sane defaults that work for Opensim and package it in a way that would be simple to run.
It would be simple if all you had to do was download and extract a zip file, edit a config file with your ports and host name, then run a file to start the service. Sadly its way more complicated than that, and I feel it could be improved upon quite easily.
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I think you've just fundamentally described what socialism is! I realise that that will probably scare the living daylights out of the average, everyday American over the age of 40, but think about it!
Best give a heads up though, I'm not referring to the faux so called socialism as practiced in the former Soviet Union, more the kind of democratic socialism of Bernie Sanders and Yanis Varoufakis that is increasingly becoming more appealing to the younger dispossessed generations in most of the world's developed countries denied so many of those things baby boomers took for granted, such as affordable housing, a stable job and in all countries of the developed world apart from the USA, a community run healthcare system that doesn't cost an arm and leg, sometimes literally so.
Of course, it's a bit more complex than that, but it has to start somewhere and caring for one another is a great starting point.
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Best give a heads up though, I'm not referring to the faux so called socialism as practiced in the former Soviet Union, more the kind of democratic socialism of Bernie Sanders and Yanis Varoufakis that is increasingly becoming more appealing to the younger dispossessed generations in most of the world's developed countries denied so many of those things baby boomers took for granted, such as affordable housing, a stable job and in all countries of the developed world apart from the USA, a community run healthcare system that doesn't cost an arm and leg, sometimes literally so.
Of course, it's a bit more complex than that, but it has to start somewhere and caring for one another is a great starting point.
If you read it again Ellen, you'll see that it's nuanced. It may not be obvious, but it's also a little tongue in cheek, as well as being pretty factual in that for decades anti-socialist propaganda has been something mainstream in US society, stemming from the McCarthyism of the 1950s and attempts to conflate the awful regimes of the Soviet empire as being indicative of socialism as an idea.
As far as I can see, there is nothing there that I can see as 'anti-American' and there is certainly no intention on my part to make it such. Indeed, my comment is more influenced by the thinking of people like Bernie Sanders and Michael Moore than any others, who, whatever one may think about them, see themselves as very proud Americans who are very aware of what ordinary working people in the United States have lost in the past half century, who are yet critical of current policies for the very reasons I laid out in my comment.
They are not alone, of course, as the ordinary working people of the UK have experienced similar losses, and to perhaps a lesser extent, ordinary working people in the rest of the developed world also.
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As far as I can see, there is nothing there that I can see as 'anti-American' and there is certainly no intention on my part to make it such. Indeed, my comment is more influenced by the thinking of people like Bernie Sanders and Michael Moore than any others, who, whatever one may think about them, see themselves as very proud Americans who are very aware of what ordinary working people in the United States have lost in the past half century, who are yet critical of current policies for the very reasons I laid out in my comment.
They are not alone, of course, as the ordinary working people of the UK have experienced similar losses, and to perhaps a lesser extent, ordinary working people in the rest of the developed world also.
Just where is the anti-American comment I made? If it’s about the USA being the only developed economy withour a socialised healthcare system, it’s a fact, not necessarily a judgement. If it’s about my comment about the views of the over 40s towards socialism, again it’s a fact, not a judgement: https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capi...
We can both see insults and slurs where we want, and I agree that it’s easy to make broad-brushed unsubstantiated attacks on whole peoples, and apart from the occasional unintended slip-up I do not do this. And I haven’t here. I have no fear of, and in fact welcome people from elsewhere making informed but crtitical comments about my country or society, as who knows, they might actually be highlighting serious shortcomings that we ourselves are too close to see?
If my intial comment was anti anything, it was anti-Captialist and not anti-American.
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We can both see insults and slurs where we want, and I agree that it’s easy to make broad-brushed unsubstantiated attacks on whole peoples, and apart from the occasional unintended slip-up I do not do this. And I haven’t here. I have no fear of, and in fact welcome people from elsewhere making informed but crtitical comments about my country or society, as who knows, they might actually be highlighting serious shortcomings that we ourselves are too close to see?
If my intial comment was anti anything, it was anti-Captialist and not anti-American.
Isn't there a fair amount of truth in my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment? As such not anti-American and not intended to be.
One could make a comment in a similar vein about a significant number of British (and Welsh) people being xenophobic towards 'foreigners' particularly the French, and whilst it doesn't characterise all British people, it does reflect a truth and is not anti-British (and I am avowedly anti-British about many, if not most things).
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One could make a comment in a similar vein about a significant number of British (and Welsh) people being xenophobic towards 'foreigners' particularly the French, and whilst it doesn't characterise all British people, it does reflect a truth and is not anti-British (and I am avowedly anti-British about many, if not most things).
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I agree with you Rogue, the OS community, such as it is, is very small, but seems to have more than its fair share of malcontents who must not have that much going on in their lives that they have to resort to the kind of pettiness they do in order to bolster their own sense of self-importance, even though its always expressed in a negative sense. I recently made a rare comment in The Box about contributing money to the voice module project, which is not progressing because of insufficient funding. One person commented that they didn't use voice, so the project wasn't worth backing. The comment served to highlight the small-minded and self-centred attitude of far too many in our 'community'. If we want nice things in OS then they have to be financed somehow, and in terms of development we're talking about RL levels of pay for the coding work needed. I'm sure that those who are willing to do that kind of coding would be more than happy to do it for special rates, but at the end of the day everyone has rent and bills to pay. Many of us would use a voice module were it available, (I personally have no use for it, but some years ago I was involved in developing an OS region for a specific purpose where voice enablement was a crucial requirement. It also needed to be spatial, but Vivox was unsuitable for reasons of privacy and security. The lack of availability of a dedicated OS voice module put an end to the project). There is a similar need for a dedicated OS only viewer, as all the viewers we currently use are primarily configured for the needs of Second Life. There is currently only one such project, the Dayturn Viewer project for those of you who have Windows or Mac computers.
It’s good that we have so many performers and Djs who are prepared to perform or play sets wherever there is a demand. If those grids that are complaining bitterly were employing those Djs and performers for RL rates of pay, then fair enough, they might have some concerns, but only in as much as the particular contract they have with that DJ/performer is fulfilled. No DJ or perfomer is a slave to any grid owner, which is basically what those grid owners are expecting.
Yes, our the OS community is small, but not that small that if we were to come together more and help each other out through making whatever positive contributions we feel able to when we can, the whole is uplifted and we will all benefit. It’s probable that OS is severely underfunded on the development side, but as ordinary users we have no idea about what is needed and how much it will cost. OSGrid has for some years now been constantly asking for contributions, but the splash page gives no indication as a running total of how much is needed, and how much has been raised to meet that need. Ditto with OpenSimulator core itself. We know that development goes on slowly, and that the devs are volunteer, but how much of a difference would being able to pay them so that they could put in at least part-time paid hours on a regular basis?
It’s difficult to know just how many users OS has in its entirety, but surely it’s going to be a figure well into the tens of thousands. If everyone downloading any version of OpenSimulator made a small donation to the project it could make a vast difference, even if that donation were as small as a Euro,a Dollar or a Pound. I run Ubuntu MATE on my machines, and every time I download a new version of the operating system I make a donation of the recommended $2.50. I’m on an extremely low income.I’m aware that others might struggle to even afford that, so I’m adamant that this kind of software should remain zero cost to download and use, but create an awareness that whole notion of ‘Free’ where cost is concerned, is highly questionable.
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It’s good that we have so many performers and Djs who are prepared to perform or play sets wherever there is a demand. If those grids that are complaining bitterly were employing those Djs and performers for RL rates of pay, then fair enough, they might have some concerns, but only in as much as the particular contract they have with that DJ/performer is fulfilled. No DJ or perfomer is a slave to any grid owner, which is basically what those grid owners are expecting.
Yes, our the OS community is small, but not that small that if we were to come together more and help each other out through making whatever positive contributions we feel able to when we can, the whole is uplifted and we will all benefit. It’s probable that OS is severely underfunded on the development side, but as ordinary users we have no idea about what is needed and how much it will cost. OSGrid has for some years now been constantly asking for contributions, but the splash page gives no indication as a running total of how much is needed, and how much has been raised to meet that need. Ditto with OpenSimulator core itself. We know that development goes on slowly, and that the devs are volunteer, but how much of a difference would being able to pay them so that they could put in at least part-time paid hours on a regular basis?
It’s difficult to know just how many users OS has in its entirety, but surely it’s going to be a figure well into the tens of thousands. If everyone downloading any version of OpenSimulator made a small donation to the project it could make a vast difference, even if that donation were as small as a Euro,a Dollar or a Pound. I run Ubuntu MATE on my machines, and every time I download a new version of the operating system I make a donation of the recommended $2.50. I’m on an extremely low income.I’m aware that others might struggle to even afford that, so I’m adamant that this kind of software should remain zero cost to download and use, but create an awareness that whole notion of ‘Free’ where cost is concerned, is highly questionable.
Suzi, I own Virtual Melody Grid, I host events there, and I have rented out regions there, but I don't need the region rentals to pay for my server.. Thats not why I opened my grid.. my grid is a private community for musicians dj's and music lovers, I have free land to give to people who want to participate in that kind of community.. ONLY the venues on my grid are public.. and to become a member its by invitation only. I also own regions on other grids, and I also host performers on WolfTerritories grid, plus I'm a performer myself.. as a performer, I have no problem sharing what venues have live music with others, as a venue owner, I have no problem telling musicians what other venues and grids have live music, as a grid owner, I have no issues sending musicians or music lovers to another grid.. to me, the more events there is.. the more support and attraction there will be for others.. I do pay usd dollars via paypal to my performers.. and I still support them and encourage them to seek out other venues and grids to play on.. I have note cards made up to share with them how to advertise and promote in opensim.. I have notecards with other venues.. I am placing a hypergrid teleporter to other grids and music venues.. I have note cards I pass out to new people coming into opensim on how opensim works etc.. I try to be very supportive.. if MORE people did this.. we would build a strong community.. I would not ever open or start a grid to rent lands or regions ever.. why?.. because you can run your own regions on OSGrid for free, you can run Ferd's software on your own computer at home for free, if you depend on others to pay for your grid by renting regions and you can not pay for that grid hosting on your own, without help from anyone.. you probably shouldn't have a public grid with regions for rent.. That's just my opinion.. I support my community members on my grid.. if they want to start their own venues, or host their own regions on osgrid or by using dreamgrid.. I will be the first to offer help.. because as a small community, that's what you do.. but I see people (other grid owners) getting bent out of shape and angry, calling names, and spreading vicious lies, and crying ohhhh you're poaching.. THAT is disrespectful to your community members! SO I am going to leave this here.. this is a quote from a friend I had a private discussion with.. "It's a shame that a grid's entire dynamic is how to accumulate the most renters rather than doing the best they can to support their grid and their community." YES.. it IS a shame! Shame on them!
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In my early days of being an Opensim user I received an earful from my then Second Life landlord who pretty much regarded tier from her tenants as a birthright. I run my own server here at home (Not Dreamgrid, I'm not on Windows systems) and my sole reason for being in OS is that quite simply I couldn't do what I do in SL, either financially or technically. I also have helped plenty of people in setting themselves up in OS, from the mundane level of putting a half-decent looking avatar together to setting up a region server, which on one occasion included a crash course in installing and configuring a Linux system for someone who had only ever used Windows systems, but who, somewhat bizzarely that they wanted to run their OS server on a Linux system. On the 'free' element, OS is never actually free, the software is free of cost, but running it certainly isn't, which at this time of increasing energy prices (at least in the UK) is a consideration. For those who want to charge people rent for their land in OS, I say good luck to them, but also make it clear to those I meet that they can run their own regions quite cheaply, though I suspect that it would be very hard indeed to beat those hosting providers who charge a mere $5 a month for a standard region.
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I have an issue - boats work fine until deeded to group, which then generates an OSSL script error stating that it has no access to the notecards, which affects seating locations avatar posed in centre of boat rather than at the helm. Group only is configurable in the main script, so I would have thought it would follow that this issue shouldn't arise. Apart from that, excellent scripts and pretty amazing boats!
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Thanks Shea. As it happens, I had the lights turned on for effect in the video. In reality the lights are likely to only be used occasionally during an event.
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Rwy'n siarad Cymraeg ac erbyn hyn mae cyfieithu peirannol wedi cyrraedd safon weddol dda i ganiatau i bobl postio yn eu mamaith. Mae gan bron pob porwr ychwanegiad gyfieithu sy'n ei gwenud hi'n fater hawdd i gyieithu - dim ond rhaid glicio ar iaith dewisiol pan mae iaith estron yn ymddangos ar eich sgrîn.
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