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Hi, it would be great to know which ones. Must have happened when we transferred the OAR to the new place.
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Thank you, glad you like it :)
(It's always a pain to change the grid, but this sim is expensive for the host, so I need new supporters from time to time.)
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(It's always a pain to change the grid, but this sim is expensive for the host, so I need new supporters from time to time.)
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I'm glad you like it. Btw. I have a little shop free and want you to put some teleporters to your place there, lets talk inworld.
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Well, some postings are missing now, maybe good I slept the whole day. I like how this discussion develops on an objective level without getting personal. There is no need, I don't want to rape a child, I just want to discuss a virtual solution for a RL problem.
Some people are born with the urge to dominate the whole world for whatever reasons and they, too, find a place in virtuality to act that out. I don't bare a grudge against Dark and his court. Just his way isn't my way.
Namaste!
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Some people are born with the urge to dominate the whole world for whatever reasons and they, too, find a place in virtuality to act that out. I don't bare a grudge against Dark and his court. Just his way isn't my way.
Namaste!
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That's a very good point that there could be real children. Never really thought about that. I met some mildly retarded seeming people who I thought were maybe children, but wasn't sure.
The most offenders don't act as adult men as far as I know from my experience, but as child avatars themselves. If you are a child avatar, you are confronted with such offers from time to time, but they make sure you are good friends before they ask and then you say yes or no. (An option, a real child doesn't have)
I don't want to justify this behaviour, just saying: There is no RL help for them, there is suicide or jail and they are also human beings. I talked to a few, they basically share similar experiences, got somehow sexually stuck at the age where it happened and try to don't harm people. They were no monsters.
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The most offenders don't act as adult men as far as I know from my experience, but as child avatars themselves. If you are a child avatar, you are confronted with such offers from time to time, but they make sure you are good friends before they ask and then you say yes or no. (An option, a real child doesn't have)
I don't want to justify this behaviour, just saying: There is no RL help for them, there is suicide or jail and they are also human beings. I talked to a few, they basically share similar experiences, got somehow sexually stuck at the age where it happened and try to don't harm people. They were no monsters.
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That's pretty much how I see those things, too. Be naked and cuddle is ok, fetish stuff and adult animations is nothing I want to see on my sim. If I had a grid I'd probably tell them to close their regions or to open their own grid.
When this happened 2 years ago, a lot of people became aware that this grey zone exists. It existed before and it's still there.
We tolerated it a long time, because we didn't know about, but since we know we all run crazy or use the pedo-hammer against other grid owners we don't like. I think this has to stop.
If someone opens a playground-sim, these people will come and many others who simply had a bad childhood and want some pink unicorn stuff now. Both groups are overlapping. So yes, if you have a playground, there will be these 'apples', some rotten, some not. Do you support pedos if you have a playground? Probably yes. But you also offer a lot of fun to families or child avatars who simply want to play someone cute or cheeky or irresponsable, and this is a lot of fun. If evil people take the silly childhood fun away, they won again.
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When this happened 2 years ago, a lot of people became aware that this grey zone exists. It existed before and it's still there.
We tolerated it a long time, because we didn't know about, but since we know we all run crazy or use the pedo-hammer against other grid owners we don't like. I think this has to stop.
If someone opens a playground-sim, these people will come and many others who simply had a bad childhood and want some pink unicorn stuff now. Both groups are overlapping. So yes, if you have a playground, there will be these 'apples', some rotten, some not. Do you support pedos if you have a playground? Probably yes. But you also offer a lot of fun to families or child avatars who simply want to play someone cute or cheeky or irresponsable, and this is a lot of fun. If evil people take the silly childhood fun away, they won again.
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These are some reasonable sounding points, especially 'Virtual communities have enough stigma to deal with already.'
(Also, I don't know if it was even legal.)
On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away. There is no way for them to be sexually active (which is almost a human right) in the real world, without harming other people and getting into trouble with the law (in most countries). In the VL no one gets harmed and as long as I don't have to see it, I don't care what other adults do.
Greetings!
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(Also, I don't know if it was even legal.)
On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away. There is no way for them to be sexually active (which is almost a human right) in the real world, without harming other people and getting into trouble with the law (in most countries). In the VL no one gets harmed and as long as I don't have to see it, I don't care what other adults do.
Greetings!
Greetings, Otto! :)
You said, "On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away."
I agree absolutely with this observation. Some level of therapy and compassion is needed. I have no argument with that position whatsoever.
There are some serious problems with allowing pedophiles into virtual communities, however, that we as responsible adults just can't sidestep in the name of compassion.
First of all, within these relatively anonymous communities, there is no way to ensure the accuracy of much of anything stated as truth. If I say, for example, that I'm over 18 years old, you have only my word on it. You happen to believe it's true in my case, but you can't prove or disprove it. Meanwhile kids posing as adults (and adults posing as kids) run rampant throughout the internet and in particular throughout virtual communities like these, where there are rarely any relatively foolproof methods employed to ensure a particular account is being used by an adult.
How do you prove, then, that the participants in any encounter are all adults? We have evidence that "catfishing" of underage persons is a common occurance on the internet through something as informal as Twitter or Facebook. Deception is pretty simple to employ, and in fact it's a very attractive prospect for a large number of people who might desire to impress or influence (read: manipulate) others. For that matter, it is fairly easy to lure children into illicit behavior through the use of deceptive roleplay tactics. It happens in face-to-face interaction with some regularity as it is. It happens in virtual interaction even more frequently because deception is so much easier to accomplish when interaction is obfuscated by the sheild of computer communication. None of us likely disputes this.
Even if we can verify the participants of pedophilia-like behavior are consenting adults, you'll still have to convince me this is somehow effective therapy, or somehow brings the persons involved lasting, substantial benefit. On the contrary, it seems very likely based on the empirical evidence I've encountered (which, once upon a time, I dared to attempt to refute) that online-only relationships of a romantic nature are ultimately more damaging and unsatisfactory than real, honest, face-to-face relationships with real people. Friendships of course are no problem, but romance is tough enough face to face. :) How are you going to convince me that mutual masterbation fantasy is somehow better than no fantasy?
Whatever better therapies there are for pedophilia, there seems no genuine utility in letting pedophiles express this behavior online where they can perform their actions more or less anonymously. In truth it's a dangerous proposition that all of us who own grids should work very hard to squelch out wherever we suspect it, lest we find ourselves one day personally responsible for its harmful effects on people we know. It's a crime for a reason.
I don't want to provide any shelter for this activity, and I don't want anyone I know to be hurt by it. Nor do I want that blood on my hands.
Great conversation, and as always a pleasure, Otto. :)
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You said, "On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away."
I agree absolutely with this observation. Some level of therapy and compassion is needed. I have no argument with that position whatsoever.
There are some serious problems with allowing pedophiles into virtual communities, however, that we as responsible adults just can't sidestep in the name of compassion.
First of all, within these relatively anonymous communities, there is no way to ensure the accuracy of much of anything stated as truth. If I say, for example, that I'm over 18 years old, you have only my word on it. You happen to believe it's true in my case, but you can't prove or disprove it. Meanwhile kids posing as adults (and adults posing as kids) run rampant throughout the internet and in particular throughout virtual communities like these, where there are rarely any relatively foolproof methods employed to ensure a particular account is being used by an adult.
How do you prove, then, that the participants in any encounter are all adults? We have evidence that "catfishing" of underage persons is a common occurance on the internet through something as informal as Twitter or Facebook. Deception is pretty simple to employ, and in fact it's a very attractive prospect for a large number of people who might desire to impress or influence (read: manipulate) others. For that matter, it is fairly easy to lure children into illicit behavior through the use of deceptive roleplay tactics. It happens in face-to-face interaction with some regularity as it is. It happens in virtual interaction even more frequently because deception is so much easier to accomplish when interaction is obfuscated by the sheild of computer communication. None of us likely disputes this.
Even if we can verify the participants of pedophilia-like behavior are consenting adults, you'll still have to convince me this is somehow effective therapy, or somehow brings the persons involved lasting, substantial benefit. On the contrary, it seems very likely based on the empirical evidence I've encountered (which, once upon a time, I dared to attempt to refute) that online-only relationships of a romantic nature are ultimately more damaging and unsatisfactory than real, honest, face-to-face relationships with real people. Friendships of course are no problem, but romance is tough enough face to face. :) How are you going to convince me that mutual masterbation fantasy is somehow better than no fantasy?
Whatever better therapies there are for pedophilia, there seems no genuine utility in letting pedophiles express this behavior online where they can perform their actions more or less anonymously. In truth it's a dangerous proposition that all of us who own grids should work very hard to squelch out wherever we suspect it, lest we find ourselves one day personally responsible for its harmful effects on people we know. It's a crime for a reason.
I don't want to provide any shelter for this activity, and I don't want anyone I know to be hurt by it. Nor do I want that blood on my hands.
Great conversation, and as always a pleasure, Otto. :)
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Hello Betty,
I have naked avatars in the 'body shop' and even had a woman, or woman-like shaped avatar complaining about a man-like shaped one with a virtual penis (that came with apollo) in the same room *staring at her*. I installed a changing room to solve this, but was thinking by myself: 'Holy hell, she must be from the US.'
That's just the same idioty of interpreting everything as sexual or sexually assaulting.
Dressed child avatars on boxes are a good idea to avoid those 'idiots' from the beginning, many thanks for the input.
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I have naked avatars in the 'body shop' and even had a woman, or woman-like shaped avatar complaining about a man-like shaped one with a virtual penis (that came with apollo) in the same room *staring at her*. I installed a changing room to solve this, but was thinking by myself: 'Holy hell, she must be from the US.'
That's just the same idioty of interpreting everything as sexual or sexually assaulting.
Dressed child avatars on boxes are a good idea to avoid those 'idiots' from the beginning, many thanks for the input.
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In general I agree with that. Your grid banned child avatars, which was at the point the right decision. But I wonder how you would handle child nudity in shops, if someone would like to try such a different rig (if you had them). I have dressrooms in skyboxes for nude kids and like the nude beach a simple 'no sex' rule. But I'm waiting for the day someone pops up blaming me as a pedo.
I'm sure the 'idiots' in this case have honourable reasons for their actions that may result from bitter personal experiences, but this is virtual and we are all adults, so to me it seems prudish and over the top. If they only had the same energy in RL to help real victims...
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I'm sure the 'idiots' in this case have honourable reasons for their actions that may result from bitter personal experiences, but this is virtual and we are all adults, so to me it seems prudish and over the top. If they only had the same energy in RL to help real victims...
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Glad you like it. still stuff missing on that sim and not enough time ... but yay glad you like the concept
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It didn't move, it had to be shut down for technical reasons (many script errors) and will be replaced by a completely new shopping concept as soon as I have the time. Please visit https://opensimworld.com/hop/78282 or for the map: nextlife-world.de:8002:Meshclothing.
Not all items are available there, but most of them and some more outlets, for example Red Star Designs. Give it a try!
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Not all items are available there, but most of them and some more outlets, for example Red Star Designs. Give it a try!