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Jupiter Rowland @JupiterRowland
Germany (Real Reality™), Dorenas World (virtual reality), OSgrid (secondary virtual reality)
Online
Far-travelled on the Hypergrid and convinced of Roth2 v2. |
Threads
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In this case, the mods would have to know which account is whose sock puppet and not count each report from a sock puppet as an individual report.
Otherwise, one user with 20 sock puppets could report you out because moderation would see 20 individual reports and take them for 20 reports from 20 individual users.
Raise that number to 25, and someone will come with 30 sock puppets.
Keep that number secret, and someone with enough sock puppets will reverse-engineer it.
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Otherwise, one user with 20 sock puppets could report you out because moderation would see 20 individual reports and take them for 20 reports from 20 individual users.
Raise that number to 25, and someone will come with 30 sock puppets.
Keep that number secret, and someone with enough sock puppets will reverse-engineer it.
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The problem with votes is that you still need moderation to combat sock puppets plus a rule that makes them a bannable offence. Like, if you're revealed to have a sock puppet, immediate ban for your main and all your sock puppets, e-mail and MAC addresses included, IP addresses if necessary.
Otherwise, someone with an agenda could and would activate their 20 sock puppets and create another 30 on top, and bam, instant 50 votes. And everyone with an agenda has already got loads of sock puppets, as do all notorious trolls and bullies.
The majority would not be defined by how many users one side has, but by how many sock puppets they have.
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Otherwise, someone with an agenda could and would activate their 20 sock puppets and create another 30 on top, and bam, instant 50 votes. And everyone with an agenda has already got loads of sock puppets, as do all notorious trolls and bullies.
The majority would not be defined by how many users one side has, but by how many sock puppets they have.
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Actually, we ARE talking about having the whole site moderated.
Including the drama in the comments on the frontpage. And severe personal attacks in IMs. And crossposting event announcements in the forums to save coins. And the rampant issue of countless sock puppet accounts, and nobody can tell me that some users lose their passwords once a month, unable to retrieve it or get a new one.
Not even the groups can be moderated, not even by their owners.
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Including the drama in the comments on the frontpage. And severe personal attacks in IMs. And crossposting event announcements in the forums to save coins. And the rampant issue of countless sock puppet accounts, and nobody can tell me that some users lose their passwords once a month, unable to retrieve it or get a new one.
Not even the groups can be moderated, not even by their owners.
I keep seeing known, existing users register a new account here. And then, after a while, another account. And so forth.
It looks like it tries to create a vibe of someone losing their password, thus registering a new account because they can no longer access their old one, then losing the password to that account, registering another account, losing the password again and registering yet another account.
The owner of those (Little) Big City sims, for example, has one new account roughly every month and keeps re-entering his sims under the new account. He also kept changing the name and address of his grid with each new account, but that seems to have stopped.
I'm not convinced that someone can keep losing their password once a month for years.
And nobody can convince me they've lost their password to their old account when they suddenly return to using that self-same old account. Next to one or multiple newer accounts. Nor can anyone convince me that their account doesn't have the same owner as another account that's showing the exact self-same mannerisms.
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It looks like it tries to create a vibe of someone losing their password, thus registering a new account because they can no longer access their old one, then losing the password to that account, registering another account, losing the password again and registering yet another account.
The owner of those (Little) Big City sims, for example, has one new account roughly every month and keeps re-entering his sims under the new account. He also kept changing the name and address of his grid with each new account, but that seems to have stopped.
I'm not convinced that someone can keep losing their password once a month for years.
And nobody can convince me they've lost their password to their old account when they suddenly return to using that self-same old account. Next to one or multiple newer accounts. Nor can anyone convince me that their account doesn't have the same owner as another account that's showing the exact self-same mannerisms.
I have noticed that when a grid/region gets negative reviews or reported for something they and the region host often come back as a new but clearly one off version of the same. So I don't think that's a password issue. Outside of that, there are people who are just really bad at keeping track of that stuff but yeah over and over is a bit suspect.
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Satyr once told me that he refuses to throw users out except in very special extreme cases.
I'm almost inclined to believe that OSW might only introduce moderation if something happens here that Satyr is personally held liable for in a Greek court, and if he's forced to choose between adding moderation or Greek authorities shutting OSW down permanently.
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I'm almost inclined to believe that OSW might only introduce moderation if something happens here that Satyr is personally held liable for in a Greek court, and if he's forced to choose between adding moderation or Greek authorities shutting OSW down permanently.
"Satyr once told me that he refuses to throw users out except in very special extreme cases." ...did he give you a reason for this?
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Then why have a TOS at all? I mean the third option is many of us get so fed up we just stop using the site and then there is less sharing of all the things that are good here.
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The only reason why OSW is still so active is because none of the planned or WIP replacements has taken off yet.
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Not only that. He actually goes around in-world, goes to events and attacks people verbally. And I'm pretty sure he has got loads of sock-puppet avatars on various grids.
This has gotten to the point at which he can only be dealt with anymore in real life. Fortunately, he is constantly piling up criminal offences on OSW alone. And I hope Cyber pulls through with his announcement.
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This has gotten to the point at which he can only be dealt with anymore in real life. Fortunately, he is constantly piling up criminal offences on OSW alone. And I hope Cyber pulls through with his announcement.
The benefit of rarely going to parties I guess. This individual needs help. And yes that should happen concurrently with pressing charges but they do need help. I mean who does THIS as a hobby?! Harasses people and wrecks the enjoyment of everyone else's hobby? But I still maintain my original point. There needs to be more moderation. How many reports does it take for complaints to be taken seriously? Really one is the correct answer. "Hey we have a problem..." Then you check it out. Folks here don't need to be harassed nonstop and threatened.
As per the OSW Terms:
You agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Content:
* that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, pornographic, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, or harms minors in any way;
* that harasses, degrades, intimidates or is hateful toward an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability;
* that disrupts the normal flow of dialogue with an excessive number of messages (flooding attack) to the Service, or that otherwise negatively affects other users' ability to use the Service
Additionally, you agree not to:
* contact anyone who has asked not to be contacted;
* "stalk" or otherwise harrass anyone;
* post non-local or otherwise irrelevant Content, repeatedly post the same or similar Content, or otherwise impose an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure;
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As per the OSW Terms:
You agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Content:
* that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, pornographic, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, or harms minors in any way;
* that harasses, degrades, intimidates or is hateful toward an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability;
* that disrupts the normal flow of dialogue with an excessive number of messages (flooding attack) to the Service, or that otherwise negatively affects other users' ability to use the Service
Additionally, you agree not to:
* contact anyone who has asked not to be contacted;
* "stalk" or otherwise harrass anyone;
* post non-local or otherwise irrelevant Content, repeatedly post the same or similar Content, or otherwise impose an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure;
And sadly the instances of this behaviour outside OSW would have to be addressed by each individual grid they occur on by their TOS.
Or legally in the real world if that can happen.
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Or legally in the real world if that can happen.
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Never Depot has lots of untextured roof parts. And other parts for buildings as well.
https://opensimworld.com/hop/88928
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https://opensimworld.com/hop/88928
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We'll never be able to agree upon one mandatory standard for everything.
I mean, there are sims and, I think, even entire grids which are Adult-rated, but whose uptight owners defined the Adult rating as "G-rated, but no child avatars allowed". I wouldn't be too surprised if they tried to push this definition into becoming the one mandatory standard for all of OpenSim.
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I mean, there are sims and, I think, even entire grids which are Adult-rated, but whose uptight owners defined the Adult rating as "G-rated, but no child avatars allowed". I wouldn't be too surprised if they tried to push this definition into becoming the one mandatory standard for all of OpenSim.
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"you look like a child avatar or a tween"
What are your criteria for this?
Under 6 feet/183cm?
Boobs smaller than standard Athena?
Certain hairstyles?
Heels too low?
Wearing too bright colours?
Wearing bright pink without looking like Jessica Biatchi?
Covering up too much/in the wrong way?
Generally not looking sexy/badass enough?
Examples, and yes, I have to bring this back: https://opensimworld.com/post/108261
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What are your criteria for this?
Under 6 feet/183cm?
Boobs smaller than standard Athena?
Certain hairstyles?
Heels too low?
Wearing too bright colours?
Wearing bright pink without looking like Jessica Biatchi?
Covering up too much/in the wrong way?
Generally not looking sexy/badass enough?
Examples, and yes, I have to bring this back: https://opensimworld.com/post/108261
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The sim, maybe even the entire grid, still runs OpenSim 0.8.2.1, an old stable version that's superseded by four newer stable versions already. 0.8.2.1 was the very first version with BoM support, but only with very basic BoM support.
OpenSim 0.8.2.1 does not know universal layers yet, though. It must have been around 0.9.1.1 which introduced full BoM support when universal layers were introduced.
This message comes when your avatar wears a universal layer. You can tell them by the symbol, three red rectangles. Ruth2 v4 uses them for optional nail polish, and I think EvoX heads use them for something else, I don't know what, I've got zero experience with EvoX.
If you take the universal layer off, you should be able to enter the sim, regardless of body or head.
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OpenSim 0.8.2.1 does not know universal layers yet, though. It must have been around 0.9.1.1 which introduced full BoM support when universal layers were introduced.
This message comes when your avatar wears a universal layer. You can tell them by the symbol, three red rectangles. Ruth2 v4 uses them for optional nail polish, and I think EvoX heads use them for something else, I don't know what, I've got zero experience with EvoX.
If you take the universal layer off, you should be able to enter the sim, regardless of body or head.
I cannot update to version 0.9. Because no-one can be bothered to sort out the NPC system I use in 0.8. It just doesn't work in 0.9. My region rely's on the NPC system. Otherwiise I might as well shut the region down and after 10 years building and updating this region that is a waste.
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you really should update to keep things up to snuff, however if you can't due to npc system, search spax orion, he may be able to help. i know he has an npc system that may work for u
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Thanks Mistress. Like I said If I cannot use the NPC system my region is useless. I dont want to resort to static avatars that cannot do anything or animesh that all look alike that just jiggle about.
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There are many different animesh people, that all don't look a-like. You can add different animations, to do different things.
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AFAIK, there's a notecard for that inside the OSW beacon that's empty by default. I don't remember its name right now, though.
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Unfortunately, traffic and traffic ranking does play a huge role in OpenSim. Sims that don't have high traffic numbers are on the verge of being invisible. Nobody is willing to flip through pages on sim lists that far back. People want quick and easy results.
This is why ca. 90% of all freebie shopping traffic went to Darkhearts when they still published their numbers. They managed to kickstart it with a whole lot of advertising plus a whole lot of exclusive, brand-new content largely on the same quality of the newest, hottest stuff on SL. And people piled onto that sim to get that content, and more people piled onto that sim because there were so many people on that sim, and because it was constantly in the top 10.
I guess, just like the R. Lion sim, it still gets lots of traffic in the shape of people who find stuff from there on other sims, can't pick it up because it's no-transfer and then go pick it up at the source.
If you haven't got anything new and exciting to offer, but you still don't want your sim to slip out of the top 10 and into obscurity which is largely the same unless your sim is a big name, you have to fabricate traffic.
The most "convincing" way is to tell some of your friends to park their avatars on your sim and keep them logged in 24/7. Then you can claim it's all regular user traffic.
If you don't know enough people who are willing to leave a computer with a viewer running all day and all night, you have to make your own traffic by creating simple alts and parking them on your sim as bots with no other apparent purpose.
Why? Because nobody will come visit your sim otherwise.
Especially not total OpenSim newbies. They don't know OSW-the-website. But they keep seeing the OSW beacons all over the place. And they take them for nifty Hypergrid teleporters. If you click on the touchscreen of a beacon, it lists the 10 most active sims. It's largely only these 10 sims that get any exposure through the beacons because especially newbies can't be arsed to go find the scroll buttons, let alone use them. And they want to go where people are because where people are has to be a cool place, right?
The popularity ranking is for luring those who already know the website, but who don't know it well enough to know that the popularity ranking is bogus and largely fabricated. They're likely to believe that popular = cool. And they, too, can't be arsed to flip through dozens of pages with sims if the first one or two pages promise to offer the hottest shit in OpenSim.
But seriously, even those of you who know all these dirty tricks, and who can see behind them: How far do you ever go through OpenSim's sim listings? When was the last time you've visited a sim that has been listed for a year or longer, that's at #700 or lower on the popularity ranking, that you weren't invited to, and that isn't yours?
See? Traffic generates traffic. And fake traffic is way too good at generating actual traffic.
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This is why ca. 90% of all freebie shopping traffic went to Darkhearts when they still published their numbers. They managed to kickstart it with a whole lot of advertising plus a whole lot of exclusive, brand-new content largely on the same quality of the newest, hottest stuff on SL. And people piled onto that sim to get that content, and more people piled onto that sim because there were so many people on that sim, and because it was constantly in the top 10.
I guess, just like the R. Lion sim, it still gets lots of traffic in the shape of people who find stuff from there on other sims, can't pick it up because it's no-transfer and then go pick it up at the source.
If you haven't got anything new and exciting to offer, but you still don't want your sim to slip out of the top 10 and into obscurity which is largely the same unless your sim is a big name, you have to fabricate traffic.
The most "convincing" way is to tell some of your friends to park their avatars on your sim and keep them logged in 24/7. Then you can claim it's all regular user traffic.
If you don't know enough people who are willing to leave a computer with a viewer running all day and all night, you have to make your own traffic by creating simple alts and parking them on your sim as bots with no other apparent purpose.
Why? Because nobody will come visit your sim otherwise.
Especially not total OpenSim newbies. They don't know OSW-the-website. But they keep seeing the OSW beacons all over the place. And they take them for nifty Hypergrid teleporters. If you click on the touchscreen of a beacon, it lists the 10 most active sims. It's largely only these 10 sims that get any exposure through the beacons because especially newbies can't be arsed to go find the scroll buttons, let alone use them. And they want to go where people are because where people are has to be a cool place, right?
The popularity ranking is for luring those who already know the website, but who don't know it well enough to know that the popularity ranking is bogus and largely fabricated. They're likely to believe that popular = cool. And they, too, can't be arsed to flip through dozens of pages with sims if the first one or two pages promise to offer the hottest shit in OpenSim.
But seriously, even those of you who know all these dirty tricks, and who can see behind them: How far do you ever go through OpenSim's sim listings? When was the last time you've visited a sim that has been listed for a year or longer, that's at #700 or lower on the popularity ranking, that you weren't invited to, and that isn't yours?
See? Traffic generates traffic. And fake traffic is way too good at generating actual traffic.
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Okay, hier sind mehr deutschsprachige wöchentliche Events:
Dienstag, 20.00 Uhr bis ca. 22.00 Uhr: Rubeus' musikalische Rumpelkiste
DJ: Rubeus Helgerud
Keine festgelegten Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Verschiedene Locations, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/237/175/22 (Frühjahr, Herbst)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/41/153/22 (Sommer)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/60/62/31 oder hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/36/14/22 (Winter)
(evtl. auf der Karte gucken; eine von drei Locations je nach Jahreszeit; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und zumindest im Winter in einem Gebäude mit zwei Stockwerken)
Erster Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty im Bluewave Club
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Pyramid, OSgrid
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80180
hop://hg.osgrid.org:80/Pyramid/171/151/16
Zweiter bis vorletzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Bluewave, Dereos
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80333
hop://dereos.org:80/Bluewave/115/90/23
Letzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Clubparty in wechselnder Location
DJ: Malon Wyngard
Selten festgelegtes Genre, manchmal festgelegte Ära, durchweg älteres Zeug
Manhattan Loft Party Location (momentan meistens) oder Beatclub oder Moka Efti, Dereos (wird dienstags von Rubeus und am vorherigen Mittwoch von Akira angekündigt)
hop://dereos.org:80/ManhattanLoft/150/204/1326
hop://dereos.org:80/Beatclub
hop://dereos.org:80/Malons sunny Island/234/48/1664
Donnerstag, 20.00 Uhr (mit Vorprogramm noch früher) bis 22.00 Uhr: Budenzauber
DJ: Bogus Curry
Häufig grob festgelegtes Genre und dann gern blueslastig
Keule, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/214/198/22 (evtl. auf der Karte gucken; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und in einem Gebäude ohne Fenster)
Freitag, 19.00 Uhr bis Mitternacht: Rock-House
DJ: Anachron Young
Selten festgelegtes Genre, meistens festgelegtes Thema (+ traditionelles "Take Five" gegen 20.00 Uhr)
Rock-House, Nihilon, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78058
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/247/152/23 (dann im einzigen Gebäude in der Gegend; zur Not auf der Karte gucken)
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Dienstag, 20.00 Uhr bis ca. 22.00 Uhr: Rubeus' musikalische Rumpelkiste
DJ: Rubeus Helgerud
Keine festgelegten Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Verschiedene Locations, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/237/175/22 (Frühjahr, Herbst)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/41/153/22 (Sommer)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/60/62/31 oder hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/36/14/22 (Winter)
(evtl. auf der Karte gucken; eine von drei Locations je nach Jahreszeit; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und zumindest im Winter in einem Gebäude mit zwei Stockwerken)
Erster Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty im Bluewave Club
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Pyramid, OSgrid
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80180
hop://hg.osgrid.org:80/Pyramid/171/151/16
Zweiter bis vorletzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Bluewave, Dereos
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80333
hop://dereos.org:80/Bluewave/115/90/23
Letzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Clubparty in wechselnder Location
DJ: Malon Wyngard
Selten festgelegtes Genre, manchmal festgelegte Ära, durchweg älteres Zeug
Manhattan Loft Party Location (momentan meistens) oder Beatclub oder Moka Efti, Dereos (wird dienstags von Rubeus und am vorherigen Mittwoch von Akira angekündigt)
hop://dereos.org:80/ManhattanLoft/150/204/1326
hop://dereos.org:80/Beatclub
hop://dereos.org:80/Malons sunny Island/234/48/1664
Donnerstag, 20.00 Uhr (mit Vorprogramm noch früher) bis 22.00 Uhr: Budenzauber
DJ: Bogus Curry
Häufig grob festgelegtes Genre und dann gern blueslastig
Keule, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/214/198/22 (evtl. auf der Karte gucken; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und in einem Gebäude ohne Fenster)
Freitag, 19.00 Uhr bis Mitternacht: Rock-House
DJ: Anachron Young
Selten festgelegtes Genre, meistens festgelegtes Thema (+ traditionelles "Take Five" gegen 20.00 Uhr)
Rock-House, Nihilon, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78058
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/247/152/23 (dann im einzigen Gebäude in der Gegend; zur Not auf der Karte gucken)
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Suchst du Club-Gebäude, also Objekte, oder Club-Partys, also Events?
Falls letzteres, dann hätte ich noch ein paar Tips für deutschsprachige Events Dienstag bis Freitag, die hier nicht als Events angekündigt werden.
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Falls letzteres, dann hätte ich noch ein paar Tips für deutschsprachige Events Dienstag bis Freitag, die hier nicht als Events angekündigt werden.
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Won't somebody think of the...
...um...
...suspensions?
You don't want her to sit in anything that doesn't have leaf springs all around!
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...um...
...suspensions?
You don't want her to sit in anything that doesn't have leaf springs all around!
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While this isn't on-topic with my original post: I'm okay with shops that offer stuff for perfectly clean children's outfits.
But whenever I see a kids' shop that offers fully nude skins and scripted boy dicks, it seriously makes me wonder.
Is that shop owner so clueless about what's in the boxes in spite of what's shown on them? I mean, I know that next to no shopkeep in the Hypergrid curates their stuff, and many slap boxes with broken permissions or even empty boxes against their shop walls, but seriously.
Has that shop owner only hung up that stuff for completion's sake, hoping in all seriousness that nobody will buy it?
Is that shop owner naïve enough to believe that THEIR customers will ALL only acquire that stuff to play nudist family?
Is that shop owner so out of the loop that they're completely unaware of the existence of paedo ageplayers both generally and in OpenSim specifically, so they can't imagine these items could possibly be acquired for sexual purposes?
Does that shop owner know but (pretend to) not care who acquires that stuff and what for?
Is that shop owner secretly (or not so secretly) a proud paedo supplier? Or paedo themselves?
Or does that shop owner secretly have a logger script running to identify avatars who come and pick up that stuff, and the shop is nothing but a paedo honeypot after all?
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But whenever I see a kids' shop that offers fully nude skins and scripted boy dicks, it seriously makes me wonder.
Is that shop owner so clueless about what's in the boxes in spite of what's shown on them? I mean, I know that next to no shopkeep in the Hypergrid curates their stuff, and many slap boxes with broken permissions or even empty boxes against their shop walls, but seriously.
Has that shop owner only hung up that stuff for completion's sake, hoping in all seriousness that nobody will buy it?
Is that shop owner naïve enough to believe that THEIR customers will ALL only acquire that stuff to play nudist family?
Is that shop owner so out of the loop that they're completely unaware of the existence of paedo ageplayers both generally and in OpenSim specifically, so they can't imagine these items could possibly be acquired for sexual purposes?
Does that shop owner know but (pretend to) not care who acquires that stuff and what for?
Is that shop owner secretly (or not so secretly) a proud paedo supplier? Or paedo themselves?
Or does that shop owner secretly have a logger script running to identify avatars who come and pick up that stuff, and the shop is nothing but a paedo honeypot after all?
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"Why do people persist in trying to go to places which have a specific purpose or theme, and not fit into that purpose or theme?"
Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is.
I think some intentionally break dress codes to demonstrate how utterly they despise role-playing in any shape or form.
I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway.
Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated.
At events that encourage or require nudity, there are those who a) are too prudish or too badass to strip down and b) couldn't possibly imagine for the life of them that anyone else actually would. At least not until they arrive there. After five minutes of waiting in vain for the clothes on the female avatars to rez, or after 30 seconds when the dicks on the male avatars have rezzed, they often nope out again anyway, so they aren't much of a problem.
Not being able to dress in a certain way because there's no fitting clothing of that kind for your body doesn't play such a big role. If I can't dress appropriately for an occasion, and I usually can't, then I don't go there, plain and simple.
I even refused to go to beaches for quite a while unless they were nude beaches. The reason: I have a Roth2 v2. There is absolutely no mesh beachwear that fits on this body. And layer swim shorts look ridiculous on me without a bulge. In fact, I had absolutely nothing I could credibly wear on a beach. I only started to go to non-nude beaches after I'd managed to re-texture some sculpty bulges for some layer swim shorts. Before then, I always sent Juno because layer swimwear looks better on her.
I think this only becomes an issue if you attend an event although you neither want to nor really can, but you have to because you were invited by someone who insists in your presence. For example, if someone absolutely wants you to attend the opening party of their fetish sim, dress code is latex, full stop, but you've got a Ruth 2.0 for which no latex clothes exist, and you refuse to wear stolen Athena clothes which may not even fit properly anyway. Then you can choose between coming as you are and breaking the dress code, coming naked which you think is sexy enough and still breaking the dress code or letting your sim owner friend down by not coming at all.
Now, this goes for single sims and mostly for specific events on those sims.
An entire grid with a specific dress code has to be monothematic and therefore tiny with no third-party sims whatsoever. I don't know any such grid from the top of my head. Even Littlefield isn't all about BDSM and doesn't require fetish outfits everywhere.
Okay, now let's imagine a hypothetic medium-small grid that's all about glitz and glam and showing off. Where everyone has a Lamborghini Veneno, of which only three were made IRL, as a daily driver. Two dozen sims dedicated to this in various ways. It's actually grid-wide dress code.
But there's one sim on that same grid where someone offers self-made, therefore legal, freebies. Let's suppose they're actually quite useful clothes for legal, made-in-OpenSim-for-OpenSim mesh bodies of a kind and in a quality that you can't find anywhere else, also because they're no-transfer exclusives. In other words, exactly what Juno and I need.
That sim is in that grid because the sim owner is friends with the grid owner, the previous grid which hosted that sim had gone down, the sim needed a new home ASAP, and the grid owner owed the sim owner one.
However, none of us can dress in the style required for the grid. There are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Roth2 v2, there are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Ruth2 v4, and both of us refuse to switch to stolen bodies with stolen heads, stolen skins, stolen hair, stolen clothes and stolen shoes just for that sim.
The only chance we'd have if we don't want to pass on that content, and we don't, is to sneak into the grid when there's nobody else online and hope that our mesh bodies and our clothes are too obscure for the grid server to have them blacklisted for not being glamourous enough.
Or a variant on this: Imagine a grid whose owner has openly stated that Athena Petite is an underage body, full stop, and therefore banned on their entire grid, full stop, because allegedly, everyone who uses this body is a paedo.
Now imagine you've got an avatar based on Athena Petite because you find Athena's boobs too unnaturally big, and you wanted your avatar to be more realistic and believable. You've actually managed to make your avatar look like a realistic, fully grown-up real-life woman. No doubt that your avatar is definitely not underage. Maybe even to the point that people say you dress like a grandma.
Okay, now imagine you absolutely have to go to that grid. There's a sim that offers exclusive content which you absolutely need, or your best friend is going to get married on that very grid, or your favourite weekly event has moved into this very grid, or whatever.
What'd you do? Pass on that content/your best friend's wedding because your presence is not tolerated on the grid because your avatar is allegedly a kid because it's an Athena Petite? Go anyway, just to let yourself be perma-banned? Pester your friend to get married elsewhere?
Throw your principles and the general look of your avatar overboard, get yourself a regular Athena and increase your boobs six-fold just to survive a trip to that grid?
If that isn't relatable enough, we could try another required dress code for a whole grid: business attire. For female avatars, this means: Blazer jacket. Pencil skirt. No bare legs, nylon is an absolute requirement. Medium heels, no flats, no high heels. Spoiler: That's actually doable with an Athena, but very difficult. In fact, it's easier with a Ruth2 v4 and 100% legal clothing, especially if you know how to make your own alpha masks (or you could ask, and you may get what you need).
Again, you absolutely need to go to that grid. What'd you do? Break the dress code, stay out or go insane trying to piece the required look together that you may think won't even look good on you?
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Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is.
I think some intentionally break dress codes to demonstrate how utterly they despise role-playing in any shape or form.
I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway.
Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated.
At events that encourage or require nudity, there are those who a) are too prudish or too badass to strip down and b) couldn't possibly imagine for the life of them that anyone else actually would. At least not until they arrive there. After five minutes of waiting in vain for the clothes on the female avatars to rez, or after 30 seconds when the dicks on the male avatars have rezzed, they often nope out again anyway, so they aren't much of a problem.
Not being able to dress in a certain way because there's no fitting clothing of that kind for your body doesn't play such a big role. If I can't dress appropriately for an occasion, and I usually can't, then I don't go there, plain and simple.
I even refused to go to beaches for quite a while unless they were nude beaches. The reason: I have a Roth2 v2. There is absolutely no mesh beachwear that fits on this body. And layer swim shorts look ridiculous on me without a bulge. In fact, I had absolutely nothing I could credibly wear on a beach. I only started to go to non-nude beaches after I'd managed to re-texture some sculpty bulges for some layer swim shorts. Before then, I always sent Juno because layer swimwear looks better on her.
I think this only becomes an issue if you attend an event although you neither want to nor really can, but you have to because you were invited by someone who insists in your presence. For example, if someone absolutely wants you to attend the opening party of their fetish sim, dress code is latex, full stop, but you've got a Ruth 2.0 for which no latex clothes exist, and you refuse to wear stolen Athena clothes which may not even fit properly anyway. Then you can choose between coming as you are and breaking the dress code, coming naked which you think is sexy enough and still breaking the dress code or letting your sim owner friend down by not coming at all.
Now, this goes for single sims and mostly for specific events on those sims.
An entire grid with a specific dress code has to be monothematic and therefore tiny with no third-party sims whatsoever. I don't know any such grid from the top of my head. Even Littlefield isn't all about BDSM and doesn't require fetish outfits everywhere.
Okay, now let's imagine a hypothetic medium-small grid that's all about glitz and glam and showing off. Where everyone has a Lamborghini Veneno, of which only three were made IRL, as a daily driver. Two dozen sims dedicated to this in various ways. It's actually grid-wide dress code.
But there's one sim on that same grid where someone offers self-made, therefore legal, freebies. Let's suppose they're actually quite useful clothes for legal, made-in-OpenSim-for-OpenSim mesh bodies of a kind and in a quality that you can't find anywhere else, also because they're no-transfer exclusives. In other words, exactly what Juno and I need.
That sim is in that grid because the sim owner is friends with the grid owner, the previous grid which hosted that sim had gone down, the sim needed a new home ASAP, and the grid owner owed the sim owner one.
However, none of us can dress in the style required for the grid. There are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Roth2 v2, there are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Ruth2 v4, and both of us refuse to switch to stolen bodies with stolen heads, stolen skins, stolen hair, stolen clothes and stolen shoes just for that sim.
The only chance we'd have if we don't want to pass on that content, and we don't, is to sneak into the grid when there's nobody else online and hope that our mesh bodies and our clothes are too obscure for the grid server to have them blacklisted for not being glamourous enough.
Or a variant on this: Imagine a grid whose owner has openly stated that Athena Petite is an underage body, full stop, and therefore banned on their entire grid, full stop, because allegedly, everyone who uses this body is a paedo.
Now imagine you've got an avatar based on Athena Petite because you find Athena's boobs too unnaturally big, and you wanted your avatar to be more realistic and believable. You've actually managed to make your avatar look like a realistic, fully grown-up real-life woman. No doubt that your avatar is definitely not underage. Maybe even to the point that people say you dress like a grandma.
Okay, now imagine you absolutely have to go to that grid. There's a sim that offers exclusive content which you absolutely need, or your best friend is going to get married on that very grid, or your favourite weekly event has moved into this very grid, or whatever.
What'd you do? Pass on that content/your best friend's wedding because your presence is not tolerated on the grid because your avatar is allegedly a kid because it's an Athena Petite? Go anyway, just to let yourself be perma-banned? Pester your friend to get married elsewhere?
Throw your principles and the general look of your avatar overboard, get yourself a regular Athena and increase your boobs six-fold just to survive a trip to that grid?
If that isn't relatable enough, we could try another required dress code for a whole grid: business attire. For female avatars, this means: Blazer jacket. Pencil skirt. No bare legs, nylon is an absolute requirement. Medium heels, no flats, no high heels. Spoiler: That's actually doable with an Athena, but very difficult. In fact, it's easier with a Ruth2 v4 and 100% legal clothing, especially if you know how to make your own alpha masks (or you could ask, and you may get what you need).
Again, you absolutely need to go to that grid. What'd you do? Break the dress code, stay out or go insane trying to piece the required look together that you may think won't even look good on you?
Sorry Jupiter, you're throwing up some pretty unlikely hypotheticals.
I wrote a long response but it boiled down to a principal I hold dear: My Home, My Rules.
That's how I operate in RL, in SL, and in OS.
In my RL home, in my SL mainland plot, and in my region in OS ... the rules are what I say they are. Obviously within the constraints of the society I am embedded in. So I have to comply with RL Law, SL TOS, and the TOS that my grid owners required that I agree to.
The same, I imagine, applies to your RL home.
If, for instance, you had a rule for entering your home which I believed I could not comply with ... I would either (a) not enter it or (b) ask you to wave that rule. If you refused to wave the rule I would leave.
Because it would not matter WHY I felt I couldn't comply with that rule ... perhaps it might conflict with my religion or my principals, but it's YOUR home and YOU get to set the rules. The minute we insist on overriding that it stops being your home.
If I have a rule in my region (still locked down after 6 years of construction ... when I build, I build BIG :) that says "Do not do X" then you either obey the rule, convince me to wave it in your case, or you get out. I don't have to rationalise or justify it ... because it's MY home.
That basically addresses everything in your reply.
Now I'll address some finer points: In SL I use the HG body. Nobody would suggest that body is infantile. But, for a bet, I made a barely-pubescent avatar using that body. And I found sufficient free items (because I wasn't going to spent $L's to win a bet lol) to dress that avatar as a child. It was a hideous outfit with a lot of alphas to hide the clipping, but it was a viable outfit all the same So banning a specific body which is ostensibly an adult body is silly. It all depends on the shape.
Add the fact that I have an alt on my home OS grid who has an avatar which (with deformation) is less than 3 feet tall ... he should only be about 6 to 7 inches, but you can only do so much after all, and I'm not in favor of automatic measures to classify any avatar as unacceptable.
BUT ... if I hypergridded to a grid which automatically kicked me out I'd just move on, because at the end of the day it really is up to the grid/region owner how he or she wants to run his/her own grid.
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I wrote a long response but it boiled down to a principal I hold dear: My Home, My Rules.
That's how I operate in RL, in SL, and in OS.
In my RL home, in my SL mainland plot, and in my region in OS ... the rules are what I say they are. Obviously within the constraints of the society I am embedded in. So I have to comply with RL Law, SL TOS, and the TOS that my grid owners required that I agree to.
The same, I imagine, applies to your RL home.
If, for instance, you had a rule for entering your home which I believed I could not comply with ... I would either (a) not enter it or (b) ask you to wave that rule. If you refused to wave the rule I would leave.
Because it would not matter WHY I felt I couldn't comply with that rule ... perhaps it might conflict with my religion or my principals, but it's YOUR home and YOU get to set the rules. The minute we insist on overriding that it stops being your home.
If I have a rule in my region (still locked down after 6 years of construction ... when I build, I build BIG :) that says "Do not do X" then you either obey the rule, convince me to wave it in your case, or you get out. I don't have to rationalise or justify it ... because it's MY home.
That basically addresses everything in your reply.
Now I'll address some finer points: In SL I use the HG body. Nobody would suggest that body is infantile. But, for a bet, I made a barely-pubescent avatar using that body. And I found sufficient free items (because I wasn't going to spent $L's to win a bet lol) to dress that avatar as a child. It was a hideous outfit with a lot of alphas to hide the clipping, but it was a viable outfit all the same So banning a specific body which is ostensibly an adult body is silly. It all depends on the shape.
Add the fact that I have an alt on my home OS grid who has an avatar which (with deformation) is less than 3 feet tall ... he should only be about 6 to 7 inches, but you can only do so much after all, and I'm not in favor of automatic measures to classify any avatar as unacceptable.
BUT ... if I hypergridded to a grid which automatically kicked me out I'd just move on, because at the end of the day it really is up to the grid/region owner how he or she wants to run his/her own grid.
You asked for explanations. You explicitly stated that your questions are not rhetorical.
I gave you explanations.
But apparently, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.
Not everything in my comment is hypothetical. This, for example, is reality:
"Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is."
I could give you names and UUIDs from my home grid, but I won't do that in public. Granted, they mostly hardly ever teleport or teleported, but I myself personally witnessed one of them being kicked and banned from Stark for giving the impression of being a child avatar although she was actually anything but.
This guy...
"I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway."
...is reality, too. Again, I could give you a name and a UUID, but again, not in public.
"Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated."
This was literally me during my first few weeks in OpenSim. And not only me as you can tell whenever you're at a motto party or at a heavily themed event in a heavily themed location, and in the middle of an event, people teleport in in what has to be their typical casual outfits. They just went where there are a lot of avatars to meet.
And in this particular case, these people won't know anything about any rules being in place until they're being told WHILE THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. The OSW beacon doesn't tell you anything about a sim, only the name, Adult rating or not and how many avatars are there, that's all. It does NOT tell you about what kind of sim it is, what's its theme, what rules are in place. It could be a medieval hard roleplay sim, it could be an Old West hard roleplay sim, it could be a BTB Gor hard roleplay sim, but if you don't know OpenSimWorld-the-website, you wouldn't know that before you actually go there. And if you do learn about the rules, you do so while having broken them already. Unless someone kicks you first.
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I gave you explanations.
But apparently, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.
Not everything in my comment is hypothetical. This, for example, is reality:
"Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is."
I could give you names and UUIDs from my home grid, but I won't do that in public. Granted, they mostly hardly ever teleport or teleported, but I myself personally witnessed one of them being kicked and banned from Stark for giving the impression of being a child avatar although she was actually anything but.
This guy...
"I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway."
...is reality, too. Again, I could give you a name and a UUID, but again, not in public.
"Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated."
This was literally me during my first few weeks in OpenSim. And not only me as you can tell whenever you're at a motto party or at a heavily themed event in a heavily themed location, and in the middle of an event, people teleport in in what has to be their typical casual outfits. They just went where there are a lot of avatars to meet.
And in this particular case, these people won't know anything about any rules being in place until they're being told WHILE THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. The OSW beacon doesn't tell you anything about a sim, only the name, Adult rating or not and how many avatars are there, that's all. It does NOT tell you about what kind of sim it is, what's its theme, what rules are in place. It could be a medieval hard roleplay sim, it could be an Old West hard roleplay sim, it could be a BTB Gor hard roleplay sim, but if you don't know OpenSimWorld-the-website, you wouldn't know that before you actually go there. And if you do learn about the rules, you do so while having broken them already. Unless someone kicks you first.
You didn't answer the question I asked.
You talk about not knowing the rules, and that's fair enough. When you arrive, you should be informed of the rules one way or another. A sign at the landing zone. A notecard. Or someone telling you. Then, a reasonable grid and owner would give you a chance to correct whatever the problem is. My landing zone (if we ever get the region finished lol) is in a cave. There will be a big sign explaining the rules and you basically have to walk through it to get out of the cave. There will also be a notecard giver which covers both English and Spanish, those being the two languages used on the grid wherein I make my home. I think that's a reasonable approach.
For example ... I recently tried to go to a shop in SL. You know the deal, you find something on the MP and follow the "see this item in second life". I landed in the middle of something that was NOT a shop. I didn't even look around, I just went to my web browser ... got the creators name, and searched for it in case she had a new location for her shop. While I was doing that I got a very polite DM "I'm sorry, you may not have realised that you're in a gay club and women aren't permitted." I immediately hit home, and then apologised and explained how I came to be there and why I hadn't realised I was in a gay club. That's reasonable. I try to always assume the best motive when someone screws up and give them a chance to correct it, as did the gay guy at that club.
What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?
Frankly if I were your little sister, and some said "CHILD AVATAR!!!" and started frothing at the mouth ... I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough.
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You talk about not knowing the rules, and that's fair enough. When you arrive, you should be informed of the rules one way or another. A sign at the landing zone. A notecard. Or someone telling you. Then, a reasonable grid and owner would give you a chance to correct whatever the problem is. My landing zone (if we ever get the region finished lol) is in a cave. There will be a big sign explaining the rules and you basically have to walk through it to get out of the cave. There will also be a notecard giver which covers both English and Spanish, those being the two languages used on the grid wherein I make my home. I think that's a reasonable approach.
For example ... I recently tried to go to a shop in SL. You know the deal, you find something on the MP and follow the "see this item in second life". I landed in the middle of something that was NOT a shop. I didn't even look around, I just went to my web browser ... got the creators name, and searched for it in case she had a new location for her shop. While I was doing that I got a very polite DM "I'm sorry, you may not have realised that you're in a gay club and women aren't permitted." I immediately hit home, and then apologised and explained how I came to be there and why I hadn't realised I was in a gay club. That's reasonable. I try to always assume the best motive when someone screws up and give them a chance to correct it, as did the gay guy at that club.
What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?
Frankly if I were your little sister, and some said "CHILD AVATAR!!!" and started frothing at the mouth ... I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough.
"What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?"
Again: One reason is because you always dress the same, plus, you ABSOLUTELY DESPISE dress codes with a BURNING PASSION, and thus, you deliberately, intentionally break them by going as you are.
Again: Reality. Could give you a name and a UUID.
Not to mention those who think that other people's rules generally don't apply to them, who think they can overrule anyone anywhere, or who try to weasel themselves around any rule out there by finding and exploiting loopholes or, if necessary, making them up out of thin air. Bonus points if they call you a fascist for enforcing your rules by banning them.
Can't give you a UUID because I refuse to go where I could find it, but I could tell you three names for the same guy.
A variant I haven't mentioned yet: The dress code is only communicated in the sim owner's native language because the entire target audience of the sim speaks the sim owner's native language. But that language is German or Italian or Brazilian Portuguese. In fact, the sim owner only speaks and understands that one language.
Sure, if you have common sense, you go find an online translator that can also identify the language if you can't.
But some treat anything communicated to them in a language other than their native tongue as not communicated to them at all. So they keep coming back because they simply don't KNOW that this foreign gibberish they were exposed to was rules, much less that and how they're breaking these rules right now. And they keep coming back until the sim owner either bans them or communicates the rules to them in their language, and I don't mean Googlish because some ignore that, too.
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Again: One reason is because you always dress the same, plus, you ABSOLUTELY DESPISE dress codes with a BURNING PASSION, and thus, you deliberately, intentionally break them by going as you are.
Again: Reality. Could give you a name and a UUID.
Not to mention those who think that other people's rules generally don't apply to them, who think they can overrule anyone anywhere, or who try to weasel themselves around any rule out there by finding and exploiting loopholes or, if necessary, making them up out of thin air. Bonus points if they call you a fascist for enforcing your rules by banning them.
Can't give you a UUID because I refuse to go where I could find it, but I could tell you three names for the same guy.
A variant I haven't mentioned yet: The dress code is only communicated in the sim owner's native language because the entire target audience of the sim speaks the sim owner's native language. But that language is German or Italian or Brazilian Portuguese. In fact, the sim owner only speaks and understands that one language.
Sure, if you have common sense, you go find an online translator that can also identify the language if you can't.
But some treat anything communicated to them in a language other than their native tongue as not communicated to them at all. So they keep coming back because they simply don't KNOW that this foreign gibberish they were exposed to was rules, much less that and how they're breaking these rules right now. And they keep coming back until the sim owner either bans them or communicates the rules to them in their language, and I don't mean Googlish because some ignore that, too.
Ok - I see where we're not communicating too effectively.
Yes - I agree that there are people who, for whatever reason, feel that they are entitled to break the rules. Said people deserve a kick and a ban once the rules are explained and they don't comply.
A person who doesn't make an effort to understand the rules is history as well. The grid owner is under no onus to jump through hoops to get the rules across. I have left grids because I simply couldn't make sense of the rules I was offered.
But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar.
Sure ... your post lays out "this is not a child so stop overreacting", and I see the value in trying to communicate that with people. But having done so, many people aren't going to get it, at which point why not just write them (and their grids) off?
It would be different if it were an RL connected issue. So a grid which prohibited avatars based on their skin color would be an issue that required persistent addressing, because that connects to RL racism.
But this is a purely VR issue because except in a vanishingly small number of cases it's unlikely that anyone in RL is going to be confused with a prepubescent child.
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Yes - I agree that there are people who, for whatever reason, feel that they are entitled to break the rules. Said people deserve a kick and a ban once the rules are explained and they don't comply.
A person who doesn't make an effort to understand the rules is history as well. The grid owner is under no onus to jump through hoops to get the rules across. I have left grids because I simply couldn't make sense of the rules I was offered.
But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar.
Sure ... your post lays out "this is not a child so stop overreacting", and I see the value in trying to communicate that with people. But having done so, many people aren't going to get it, at which point why not just write them (and their grids) off?
It would be different if it were an RL connected issue. So a grid which prohibited avatars based on their skin color would be an issue that required persistent addressing, because that connects to RL racism.
But this is a purely VR issue because except in a vanishingly small number of cases it's unlikely that anyone in RL is going to be confused with a prepubescent child.
"But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar."
For one, I wasn't originally talking about ENTIRE GRIDS while you were ONLY ever talking about entire grids.
It isn't only grid owners who make rules and kick and ban avatars. In fact, grid owners rather have the decency to publish their rules somewhere.
I was talking about SIMS whose owners make their own rules just for that sim in addition to the grid rules.
First of all, rules specific to one sim or a few sims under the same owner have much more of a tendency to only exist in the head of the owner and never be communicated to anyone, much less written down and published somewhere that's publicly accessible. Avatars are being kicked and banned for breaking rules they don't even know exist all the time.
In fact, they actually may or may not be definite rules.
The sim owner may actually have a catalogue of definite underage avatar attributes in their head and check avatars for these attributes. Too short, check, kid, kick & ban. Petite, check, kid, kick & ban. Too light skin, check, kid, kick & ban. Twin pigtails, check, kid, kick & ban.
But: The sim owner may just as well only kick and ban avatars on the ground of FEELING like that's an underage avatar. The criteria for that may be the exact same as above and as in my original post. But they aren't defined and listed individually in the sim owner's mind. It's just that too short size and/or too light skin and/or too small boobs and/or too bright clothes and/or not sexy enough clothes make an avatar FEEL underage.
You can actually often read that on signs at sim landings: "We may kick and ban any avatar which we consider looking underage." But "looking underage" is not defined anywhere. There is NO list of defined criteria for what makes an avatar look underage.
If there was such a list, don't you think they'd rattle it down on the very same sign to make clear what consitutes an underage avatar and what doesn't? Much like the OSgrid plazas explicitly rattle down all the things they don't tolerate on avatars, one by one, on big in-world signs?
But they don't. Because it isn't a catalogue of defined criteria. It's gut feelings. Based on largely the same criteria as above, but never defined, not judged by the mind checking off a list, but judged by the guts that feel like it's a child avatar.
So instead, the sign may read something like, "It's up to us to decide what makes an avatar look underage. No questioning our decision."
If go you PRESSURE the grid owners to spit out what they think makes an avatar look underage, they MAY list up stuff like that above. After spending a while thinking about what they feel makes an avatar look underage, based on what avatars looked like that they've kicked and banned in the recent past. But not before then.
Grid owners are more harmless for another reason: They can't patrol and police the whole grid with 359 sims all the time. Even if they do have as vague as draconian rules, which grid owners don't have on the same level as sim owners, it's fairly easy to sneak past them.
A sim owner who has only got one sim, maybe even only one party sim that's only busy for a few hours per day, one or a few days per week, can easily police the whole sim and over 90% of the activity on that sim. Because it's only that one sim.
And avatars are much more often being kicked and banned by sim owners from party sims during parties and from RP sims during RP sessions than from freebie sims or landscape sims.
Besides, it is not specifically about Juno. It has never been specifically about Juno.
But Juno is a great example because she tends to have so much on her that may constitute an underage avatar. Either because it's on some sim owner's defined checklist of underage avatar attributes. Or because it triggers some sim owner's gut feelings that this avatar kinda sorta looks underage.
It's about Juno as much as it's about ALL avatars that have enough on them that Juno has, too. They're all just the same in danger of being wrongly kicked and banned for allegedly being underage. Not just Juno. In fact, many are even MORE in danger than Juno because Juno at least has a sizable pair of boobs which Athena Petite avatars don't have.
Why I've used Juno then? Well, I had the choice. Either use Juno as an example. Or comb the Hypergrid and search for bits and pieces to put together another female avatar with only the specific purpose of making one picture and showing demonstrating alleged child avatar criteria. Enormous effort to build something that's readily available already.
It was easier and more convenient to use Juno. Simple as that.
And it's more relatable if it's an avatar that actually walks around out there, goes shopping, goes partying, than if it's an avatar that was cobbled together for this one picture, never seen before and never to be seen again.
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For one, I wasn't originally talking about ENTIRE GRIDS while you were ONLY ever talking about entire grids.
It isn't only grid owners who make rules and kick and ban avatars. In fact, grid owners rather have the decency to publish their rules somewhere.
I was talking about SIMS whose owners make their own rules just for that sim in addition to the grid rules.
First of all, rules specific to one sim or a few sims under the same owner have much more of a tendency to only exist in the head of the owner and never be communicated to anyone, much less written down and published somewhere that's publicly accessible. Avatars are being kicked and banned for breaking rules they don't even know exist all the time.
In fact, they actually may or may not be definite rules.
The sim owner may actually have a catalogue of definite underage avatar attributes in their head and check avatars for these attributes. Too short, check, kid, kick & ban. Petite, check, kid, kick & ban. Too light skin, check, kid, kick & ban. Twin pigtails, check, kid, kick & ban.
But: The sim owner may just as well only kick and ban avatars on the ground of FEELING like that's an underage avatar. The criteria for that may be the exact same as above and as in my original post. But they aren't defined and listed individually in the sim owner's mind. It's just that too short size and/or too light skin and/or too small boobs and/or too bright clothes and/or not sexy enough clothes make an avatar FEEL underage.
You can actually often read that on signs at sim landings: "We may kick and ban any avatar which we consider looking underage." But "looking underage" is not defined anywhere. There is NO list of defined criteria for what makes an avatar look underage.
If there was such a list, don't you think they'd rattle it down on the very same sign to make clear what consitutes an underage avatar and what doesn't? Much like the OSgrid plazas explicitly rattle down all the things they don't tolerate on avatars, one by one, on big in-world signs?
But they don't. Because it isn't a catalogue of defined criteria. It's gut feelings. Based on largely the same criteria as above, but never defined, not judged by the mind checking off a list, but judged by the guts that feel like it's a child avatar.
So instead, the sign may read something like, "It's up to us to decide what makes an avatar look underage. No questioning our decision."
If go you PRESSURE the grid owners to spit out what they think makes an avatar look underage, they MAY list up stuff like that above. After spending a while thinking about what they feel makes an avatar look underage, based on what avatars looked like that they've kicked and banned in the recent past. But not before then.
Grid owners are more harmless for another reason: They can't patrol and police the whole grid with 359 sims all the time. Even if they do have as vague as draconian rules, which grid owners don't have on the same level as sim owners, it's fairly easy to sneak past them.
A sim owner who has only got one sim, maybe even only one party sim that's only busy for a few hours per day, one or a few days per week, can easily police the whole sim and over 90% of the activity on that sim. Because it's only that one sim.
And avatars are much more often being kicked and banned by sim owners from party sims during parties and from RP sims during RP sessions than from freebie sims or landscape sims.
Besides, it is not specifically about Juno. It has never been specifically about Juno.
But Juno is a great example because she tends to have so much on her that may constitute an underage avatar. Either because it's on some sim owner's defined checklist of underage avatar attributes. Or because it triggers some sim owner's gut feelings that this avatar kinda sorta looks underage.
It's about Juno as much as it's about ALL avatars that have enough on them that Juno has, too. They're all just the same in danger of being wrongly kicked and banned for allegedly being underage. Not just Juno. In fact, many are even MORE in danger than Juno because Juno at least has a sizable pair of boobs which Athena Petite avatars don't have.
Why I've used Juno then? Well, I had the choice. Either use Juno as an example. Or comb the Hypergrid and search for bits and pieces to put together another female avatar with only the specific purpose of making one picture and showing demonstrating alleged child avatar criteria. Enormous effort to build something that's readily available already.
It was easier and more convenient to use Juno. Simple as that.
And it's more relatable if it's an avatar that actually walks around out there, goes shopping, goes partying, than if it's an avatar that was cobbled together for this one picture, never seen before and never to be seen again.
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Can't tell you about the rest, also because I neither know nor care where you can get which male clothes for which SL body.
But a hard hat can be found at Wright Plaza, the good old official freebie sim on OSgrid. Can't tell you at which coordinates, though. Just spend some time there and look through the shops, maybe you'll find other useful items such as sawhorses.
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But a hard hat can be found at Wright Plaza, the good old official freebie sim on OSgrid. Can't tell you at which coordinates, though. Just spend some time there and look through the shops, maybe you'll find other useful items such as sawhorses.
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This whole topic would be a great deal easier to discuss if sim owners who label avatars potentially or actually underage by their looks laid their criteria for an underage look open, and if they did so in the descriptions of their sims right here in OSW.
If they consider all avatars under 6' underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider all Athena Petite avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars with twin pigtails underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars wearing too bright colours underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider too light-skinned avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars covering up too much underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they discover new criteria for an underage look which they didn't even know exist until then, e.g. lips like in the above image as opposed to the big full lips that come with literally every last shape in every last female mesh head, then they should update their descriptions and explicitly say that this is not tolerated because it makes an avatar look like a kid.
Then and only then do we have rock-solid proof from sim owners what makes an avatar look underage. Then and only then can we discuss it without claiming that no avatar that doesn't wear a kiddie body will ever be considered underage.
"You look too young" without explaining WHAT EXACTLY makes an avatar look too young is too vague.
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If they consider all avatars under 6' underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider all Athena Petite avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars with twin pigtails underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars wearing too bright colours underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider too light-skinned avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars covering up too much underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they discover new criteria for an underage look which they didn't even know exist until then, e.g. lips like in the above image as opposed to the big full lips that come with literally every last shape in every last female mesh head, then they should update their descriptions and explicitly say that this is not tolerated because it makes an avatar look like a kid.
Then and only then do we have rock-solid proof from sim owners what makes an avatar look underage. Then and only then can we discuss it without claiming that no avatar that doesn't wear a kiddie body will ever be considered underage.
"You look too young" without explaining WHAT EXACTLY makes an avatar look too young is too vague.
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"Only recently i was at Lliba and was asked to leave or change my appearance because I looked "too young". My avi AND me are 5'6 and I had on an athena petite body and an outfit very similar to the image above. Long sleeves, long pants. Not even any pink clothing. I thought it was crazy, but I agreed to leave."
This. This so very much.
Many people claim that the only thing that could flag an avatar underage is an automated childgate configured to a minimum of 180cm or 6'. They claim that avatars would never be considered underage just by their looks. Until someone writes that exactly this has happened to their own avatar.
Even then, some either don't believe it, or they think their avatar, while not fully conforming to OpenSim standards, is safe. Until it surprisingly, unexpectedly happens to their very own avatar.
Those who still keep denying it, and I guess they're still the vast majority here, have female avatars that fully conform to the "professional San Fernando Valley porn star meets Kardashian family member, and the whole Hypergrid is Malibu or Ibiza in summer always and everywhere" standard. I guess they're staring at the above image in disbelief that it's even possible to build such an avatar, much less that someone has actually done it and, worse yet, sticks with it as a daily driver.
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This. This so very much.
Many people claim that the only thing that could flag an avatar underage is an automated childgate configured to a minimum of 180cm or 6'. They claim that avatars would never be considered underage just by their looks. Until someone writes that exactly this has happened to their own avatar.
Even then, some either don't believe it, or they think their avatar, while not fully conforming to OpenSim standards, is safe. Until it surprisingly, unexpectedly happens to their very own avatar.
Those who still keep denying it, and I guess they're still the vast majority here, have female avatars that fully conform to the "professional San Fernando Valley porn star meets Kardashian family member, and the whole Hypergrid is Malibu or Ibiza in summer always and everywhere" standard. I guess they're staring at the above image in disbelief that it's even possible to build such an avatar, much less that someone has actually done it and, worse yet, sticks with it as a daily driver.