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Jupiter Rowland @JupiterRowland
Germany (Real Reality™), Dorenas World (virtual reality), OSgrid (secondary virtual reality)
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Far-travelled on the Hypergrid and convinced of Roth2 v2. |
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Two things that I've noticed:
One, do you know the Swiss Cafe? That two-floor building with the Swiss flag, "CAFE" written on the outside, bar counter inside but hardly any other furniture, baked-on spotlight highlights on the walls etc. etc.? There are several derivatives of this building already.
All of them, original and derivatives, have the same bug now: Ground floor. Second window from the left. The frame and the upper part are plain white, they've lost their texture. Everywhere, all over the Hypergrid, no matter where I go.
Two, I keep seeing Adonis 3 with a white right hand and a Bento-less starfish left hand. This could depend on the skin, though.
I see both with multiple avatars on multiple grids each, running very different OpenSim versions. And I see this in all Firestorm versions from 6.3.9 to 7.1.9 as well as in the Cool VL Viewer.
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One, do you know the Swiss Cafe? That two-floor building with the Swiss flag, "CAFE" written on the outside, bar counter inside but hardly any other furniture, baked-on spotlight highlights on the walls etc. etc.? There are several derivatives of this building already.
All of them, original and derivatives, have the same bug now: Ground floor. Second window from the left. The frame and the upper part are plain white, they've lost their texture. Everywhere, all over the Hypergrid, no matter where I go.
Two, I keep seeing Adonis 3 with a white right hand and a Bento-less starfish left hand. This could depend on the skin, though.
I see both with multiple avatars on multiple grids each, running very different OpenSim versions. And I see this in all Firestorm versions from 6.3.9 to 7.1.9 as well as in the Cool VL Viewer.
When I start seeing white textures, I clear my viewer caches and that usually resolves the issue. It seems to happen a lot if and when I use the Opensimulator version of FS to log in to SL. Logging back to my Opensim grid, results in some content turning white.
So I try to always use the Opensim version of FS for Opensim and the SL version for SL.
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So I try to always use the Opensim version of FS for Opensim and the SL version for SL.
Clearing the viewer caches did nothing to solve my problem. In fact, I've tried deleting the entire user directory for Firestorm after saving the settings and having it regenerated. The issue persisted.
And if
* Firestorm on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* Firestorm on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
all show the exact same symptoms and do so for four avatars on two grids, one running OpenSim 0.9.2.0, one running OpenSim 0.9.3.0, then it's highly unlikely that the viewer cache is the issue. Firestorm and the Cool VL Viewer don't have a shared cache, nor do they share a cache across multiple independent machines.
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And if
* Firestorm on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* Firestorm on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
all show the exact same symptoms and do so for four avatars on two grids, one running OpenSim 0.9.2.0, one running OpenSim 0.9.3.0, then it's highly unlikely that the viewer cache is the issue. Firestorm and the Cool VL Viewer don't have a shared cache, nor do they share a cache across multiple independent machines.
Out of curiosity has anyone tried clearing the region's cache? Assets basically flow like this: Robust -> Sim (cached) -> Viewer (cached). If there's a network hiccup between the sim and robust during the initial fetch, then what's in the sim and viewer cache will be broken. If there's a hiccup on the disk the sim is caching to, then what's in the sim and viewer will be broken.
In the case of an HG transfer, I believe the assets going to the foreign grid are going through the region's cache so... Those could likely be affected to.
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In the case of an HG transfer, I believe the assets going to the foreign grid are going through the region's cache so... Those could likely be affected to.
yes we have tried clearing the regions cache, the grid cache, any & all cache that we could clear, we have done this clearing of cache's & then dropping an old backup of each region and it did not work, I have tons of space on our servers so it is not that we lack the space for all of our data
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Hast du einen Pappkameraden aufstellen lassen, oder hat sich der größte Floydd-Fan des Metaversums tatsächlich die Show vor Ort rein-gekeult?
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I don't get inworld as often as I used to, but it's still fun to visit different sims. Glad to see that there are still active groups and new regions coming online.
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There's actually plenty of legal stuff. But you'll rarely find it at freebie stores, not at the big traditional freebie stores that try to hoard as much Hypergrid content as possible and not at the "new hot stuff" freebie stores either.
Usually, there are three reasons for this.
One, it's obscure. It's often hard to find, and so, nobody even knows that it exists. In fact, a lot of it only exists in the inventories of a few avatars anymore.
Two, it can't hold a candle to premium luxury payware released in SL in 2024 and promptly ripped and offered in OpenSim for free. Deck your avatar out in a Ruth2 v4 with Damien Fate clothes etc., and people will take you for a clueless newbie who needs to be told where to get "the good stuff" and how to use it. The only shop owners willing to hang up such content are either those who prefer quantity over quality and never curate any of the items in their shops or the blue-eyed idealists who want to run freebie stores with only legal content.
And three, it often isn't full-perm itself, and hardly any freebie store owner can be bothered to God-Mode such old content. Or worse yet, you can't get the sales boxes, only their contents, so you'd have to rebox everything. Or both.
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Usually, there are three reasons for this.
One, it's obscure. It's often hard to find, and so, nobody even knows that it exists. In fact, a lot of it only exists in the inventories of a few avatars anymore.
Two, it can't hold a candle to premium luxury payware released in SL in 2024 and promptly ripped and offered in OpenSim for free. Deck your avatar out in a Ruth2 v4 with Damien Fate clothes etc., and people will take you for a clueless newbie who needs to be told where to get "the good stuff" and how to use it. The only shop owners willing to hang up such content are either those who prefer quantity over quality and never curate any of the items in their shops or the blue-eyed idealists who want to run freebie stores with only legal content.
And three, it often isn't full-perm itself, and hardly any freebie store owner can be bothered to God-Mode such old content. Or worse yet, you can't get the sales boxes, only their contents, so you'd have to rebox everything. Or both.
Not sure there is lot of demand for Linda Kelly Items or pre 2010 look alike builds. Just sayin its the new stuff and scripts in demand.
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Not much has been made since the copybotting craze really kicked off around 2015. Many creators threw in the towel, and they did before they even tried to make their own meshes. You have to give credit to Linda for being among the few who actually made original, legal, even partly open-source mesh content (Clutterfly) when most others threw in the towel because they couldn't compete with the masses of copybotted SL content.
There may not be as much demand for it as for Lara/LaraX/Legacy/eBody Reborn stuff that's a few months old tops. But there is demand, namely from those very few who want to deck out their avatars in legal content, and who got far enough to not decide that's impossible, give up and get themselves a ripped LaraX.
(Curiously, Clutterfly jewellery is currently spreading across brand-new freebie stores like wild fire. Goes to show that many shop owners have no idea what they're slapping against their shop walls.)
There may be even less demand for layer clothes, regardless of how practical they can be and how they can solve problems that arose when everything went mesh. But again, there is demand. And not only from those who refuse to modernise their avatars beyond 2011.
As for buildings, unfortunately, the choice isn't that big. Free and legal buildings that look really good pretty much only come from Aaack Aardvark. What he builds blows everything from SL out of the water. But it isn't much, and it's mostly only available in his two shops.
Otherwise, if it's legal, and it looks good, it's payware. If it's free and legal, it's often very old prim buildings from times when computers were weaker, and creators weren't quite as talented. Like, fairly low number of prims, doors as thick as the walls and no texture alignment whatsoever. And if it's free, and it's good-looking mesh, it's illegal and ripped from SL.
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There may not be as much demand for it as for Lara/LaraX/Legacy/eBody Reborn stuff that's a few months old tops. But there is demand, namely from those very few who want to deck out their avatars in legal content, and who got far enough to not decide that's impossible, give up and get themselves a ripped LaraX.
(Curiously, Clutterfly jewellery is currently spreading across brand-new freebie stores like wild fire. Goes to show that many shop owners have no idea what they're slapping against their shop walls.)
There may be even less demand for layer clothes, regardless of how practical they can be and how they can solve problems that arose when everything went mesh. But again, there is demand. And not only from those who refuse to modernise their avatars beyond 2011.
As for buildings, unfortunately, the choice isn't that big. Free and legal buildings that look really good pretty much only come from Aaack Aardvark. What he builds blows everything from SL out of the water. But it isn't much, and it's mostly only available in his two shops.
Otherwise, if it's legal, and it looks good, it's payware. If it's free and legal, it's often very old prim buildings from times when computers were weaker, and creators weren't quite as talented. Like, fairly low number of prims, doors as thick as the walls and no texture alignment whatsoever. And if it's free, and it's good-looking mesh, it's illegal and ripped from SL.
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Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode on 100% legal, squeaky-clean content, especially if you refuse to use anything ripped.
For example, mesh clothes. They may be based on Clutterfly meshes, they may be based on Damien Fate meshes, or there may be the super-rare case of fully original mesh clothes rigged for one of the few legal mesh bodies made in and for OpenSim. It isn't like that stuff is all over the freebie stores. Not even the old Deva Moda clothes are, and they're full-perm, but they're too old in a world in which only the newest hotness sells, they're too unsexy in a world in which bare skin equals sexy, and they aren't "rigged for Athena". In many other cases, they're no-transfer, and they can only be found in exactly one shop, if at all. So finding any of them in the first place requires a lot of time, detective work and sheer luck whereas you can get boatloads of Athena stuff just around the corner.
Scenario #1: You've found these amazing clothes that can really be useful for you. You haven't found anything in this style yet, or maybe in this style, but not in this quality. Think "Damien Fate-based jeans, but with actually good textures". But the creator has set them to Alpha Blending, and they look less than optimal in your viewer. Or worse yet, the creator has set them to full bright. On top of that, they're no-modify.
What do you do? Ask the creator to fix them? The creator hasn't been online in many years. It's a wonder that their shop is still there. Throw them away and look for something better? You probably won't find any replacement for them. Throw them away and carry on as if they had never existed? No, these clothes are too useful to throw them away, especially with no replacement.
So what you do is fire up your God Mode, get yourself temporary full perms for these items and fix their settings.
Scenario #2: You have to move grids for some reason. And be it because the grid you're on will shut down. Of course you want to take your stuff with you.
Some of that stuff is clothing, both layer and mesh. It's fairly old, but it's useful, it works decently on your Ruth2 v4 or Roth2 v2 (the mesh clothes may require custom alpha masks), and above all, it's legal. Trouble: It's no-transfer. And some of it can no longer be acquired in-store because the last or only store that offered it has disappeared long ago. You've got some of the last copies in your inventory.
What do you do? Leave that stuff behind when you move? You can't replace it because if you could, you might already have done it. And if you discard it, chances are that'll make entire outfit styles impossible. It took years already until you finally came across these clothes in some obscure shop on a sim not even listed on OSW. And that sim is gone.
Or finally do what people keep preaching you to do? Get yourself a stolen SL body with a stolen SL head, stolen SL hair, a stolen SL skin and stolen SL clothes because they look oh so much better, and that's what everyone does? Out of question. You've had a legal avatar before, you want to keep having a legal avatar.
So what you actually do is fire up your God Mode, change the content in question from no-transfer to transfer and save it from destruction by transferring it to your new avatar.
Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode so that you can keep using legal stuff that was not stolen from SL.
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For example, mesh clothes. They may be based on Clutterfly meshes, they may be based on Damien Fate meshes, or there may be the super-rare case of fully original mesh clothes rigged for one of the few legal mesh bodies made in and for OpenSim. It isn't like that stuff is all over the freebie stores. Not even the old Deva Moda clothes are, and they're full-perm, but they're too old in a world in which only the newest hotness sells, they're too unsexy in a world in which bare skin equals sexy, and they aren't "rigged for Athena". In many other cases, they're no-transfer, and they can only be found in exactly one shop, if at all. So finding any of them in the first place requires a lot of time, detective work and sheer luck whereas you can get boatloads of Athena stuff just around the corner.
Scenario #1: You've found these amazing clothes that can really be useful for you. You haven't found anything in this style yet, or maybe in this style, but not in this quality. Think "Damien Fate-based jeans, but with actually good textures". But the creator has set them to Alpha Blending, and they look less than optimal in your viewer. Or worse yet, the creator has set them to full bright. On top of that, they're no-modify.
What do you do? Ask the creator to fix them? The creator hasn't been online in many years. It's a wonder that their shop is still there. Throw them away and look for something better? You probably won't find any replacement for them. Throw them away and carry on as if they had never existed? No, these clothes are too useful to throw them away, especially with no replacement.
So what you do is fire up your God Mode, get yourself temporary full perms for these items and fix their settings.
Scenario #2: You have to move grids for some reason. And be it because the grid you're on will shut down. Of course you want to take your stuff with you.
Some of that stuff is clothing, both layer and mesh. It's fairly old, but it's useful, it works decently on your Ruth2 v4 or Roth2 v2 (the mesh clothes may require custom alpha masks), and above all, it's legal. Trouble: It's no-transfer. And some of it can no longer be acquired in-store because the last or only store that offered it has disappeared long ago. You've got some of the last copies in your inventory.
What do you do? Leave that stuff behind when you move? You can't replace it because if you could, you might already have done it. And if you discard it, chances are that'll make entire outfit styles impossible. It took years already until you finally came across these clothes in some obscure shop on a sim not even listed on OSW. And that sim is gone.
Or finally do what people keep preaching you to do? Get yourself a stolen SL body with a stolen SL head, stolen SL hair, a stolen SL skin and stolen SL clothes because they look oh so much better, and that's what everyone does? Out of question. You've had a legal avatar before, you want to keep having a legal avatar.
So what you actually do is fire up your God Mode, change the content in question from no-transfer to transfer and save it from destruction by transferring it to your new avatar.
Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode so that you can keep using legal stuff that was not stolen from SL.
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Yes, OpenSim's on-boarding that covers the entire range of questionable to not accessible to newbies to non-existent in the first place is its very own topic. I mean, it's shown often enough that even SL converts struggle after joining OpenSim.
And the on-boarding is the first impression that someone gets of OpenSim.
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And the on-boarding is the first impression that someone gets of OpenSim.
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If you've got a lot of time, you might want to look through Victor DeAngelo's Free Life Grid, especially Nostalgia Neighborhood and Eloquent Estates. He has got a lot of exclusive stuff that you won't see anywhere else.
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It gets stranger and stranger.
I'm at Virtual Beach now, using Firestorm 7.1.9. I can see the visitors list with no problems. Nice black and blue now, not so washed out anymore. Also, I've just updated the regions list which I can see listing regions as expected.
So I can't even reproduce your issue. And I don't think I'm one of the lucky few with a perfect Firestorm 7 system.
I mean, I could try again with the Cool VL Viewer and see what happens, but that wouldn't lead to anything useful.
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I'm at Virtual Beach now, using Firestorm 7.1.9. I can see the visitors list with no problems. Nice black and blue now, not so washed out anymore. Also, I've just updated the regions list which I can see listing regions as expected.
So I can't even reproduce your issue. And I don't think I'm one of the lucky few with a perfect Firestorm 7 system.
I mean, I could try again with the Cool VL Viewer and see what happens, but that wouldn't lead to anything useful.
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I've tested Firestorm 7 on my tower with dedicated graphics on grids running various OpenSim versions from OSgrid's 0.9.3.0 to ArribaSim FreAki which is partly still 0.8.x.x at its core. It worked everywhere.
On the other hand, on my laptop with on-board graphics, Firestorm 7 had a hard time loading an avatar. The debug console claimed it failed to download certain surfaces (Error 503), and the avatar stayed cloudy until I removed all attachments and replaced all textures with plain white. The surroundings worked. That was on 0.9.2.0, and my tower works just fine on the same sim on the same grid with the same avatar.
Both machines run Debian testing.
So it could be a client-side issue, but even that is still mysterious to me. If you could tell me a sim I could visit for a test, I'd do so with the tower and see what happens.
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On the other hand, on my laptop with on-board graphics, Firestorm 7 had a hard time loading an avatar. The debug console claimed it failed to download certain surfaces (Error 503), and the avatar stayed cloudy until I removed all attachments and replaced all textures with plain white. The surroundings worked. That was on 0.9.2.0, and my tower works just fine on the same sim on the same grid with the same avatar.
Both machines run Debian testing.
So it could be a client-side issue, but even that is still mysterious to me. If you could tell me a sim I could visit for a test, I'd do so with the tower and see what happens.
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PBR itself only happens if there's PBR content. And no, you can't switch the rendering engine back to how Firestorm 6 behaved.
As for the boards, this does sound strange. Normally, the behaviour of such boards shouldn't change. But if you've got two boards with probably fully independently developed scripts underneath, and they both act up the same way, it sounds like we'll have quite a number of scripts to adapt and then an even larger number of scripted boards to update.
I mean, Firestorm 7 has only just been rolled out a few days ago. It hasn't been tested against everything in OpenSim yet. So we might be in for a few more surprises, and the Firestorm team might be in for a few more bug reports. But I hope this can be sorted out in-world.
I think I should travel around and check a few boards out there.
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As for the boards, this does sound strange. Normally, the behaviour of such boards shouldn't change. But if you've got two boards with probably fully independently developed scripts underneath, and they both act up the same way, it sounds like we'll have quite a number of scripts to adapt and then an even larger number of scripted boards to update.
I mean, Firestorm 7 has only just been rolled out a few days ago. It hasn't been tested against everything in OpenSim yet. So we might be in for a few more surprises, and the Firestorm team might be in for a few more bug reports. But I hope this can be sorted out in-world.
I think I should travel around and check a few boards out there.
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PSA: This is MY thread.
It's up to ME who gets to decide which comments remain, and which have to go.
Satyr wants us to moderate OSW ourselves, and so I've done. I have enforced the rules of this website which it actually does have, surprise, surprise: https://opensimworld.com/page/terms
I've cleaned this thread up, and I've prevented the worst offenders from ever spewing their toxic waste over my comment threads again.
Come whining about your "freeze peach" all you want. You aren't entitled to be heard by absolutely everyone absolutely everywhere.
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It's up to ME who gets to decide which comments remain, and which have to go.
Satyr wants us to moderate OSW ourselves, and so I've done. I have enforced the rules of this website which it actually does have, surprise, surprise: https://opensimworld.com/page/terms
I've cleaned this thread up, and I've prevented the worst offenders from ever spewing their toxic waste over my comment threads again.
Come whining about your "freeze peach" all you want. You aren't entitled to be heard by absolutely everyone absolutely everywhere.
Great thing, Jupiter. :-) As I told you, I have removed my own off-topic posts myself. I hope now it stays factual and close to the topic. :-)
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Windlight has been dead and gone since OpenSim 0.9.2.2 and Firestorm 6.6.3, replaced with EEP. You can still get boxes containing the old Windlight presets converted to EEP, but that isn't Windlight proper. So in order to preserve Windlight, you'll have to stick to OpenSim 0.9.2.1 at best, maybe manually backport security patches, and Firestorm 6.5.6.
The main difference between PBR content and pre-PBR content is/will be that the colours of PBR content are more subdued. Pre-PBR content has almost cartoonish colours to equal pre-PBR viewers' low-contrast rendering of everything. However, I can see non-PBR content in SL being upgraded for PBR viewers with more subdued colours even if it doesn't get PBR textures.
Other differences will be more glaring. I mean, a lot of pre-PBR content was made to look good on toasters with absolute minimum graphics settings. Plenty of it was ripped and taken to OpenSim. You can see it everywhere: baked-on shadows, baked-on highlights, baked-on reflections/shininess and not even the faintest trace of Blinn-Phong. Putting such content next to PBR content on a PBR-enabled sim will look inconsistent, but then again, so is putting it next to content with Blinn-Phong already now. Think old prim kitchen appliances next to Arcadia's Espresso Machine.
And look around typical sims here in OpenSim. Many sim builders have no problems plopping down ripped SL mesh buildings with baked-on everything right next to simple prim buildings that look like 2007 because they're even set to full bright, thus circumventing the shaders.
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The main difference between PBR content and pre-PBR content is/will be that the colours of PBR content are more subdued. Pre-PBR content has almost cartoonish colours to equal pre-PBR viewers' low-contrast rendering of everything. However, I can see non-PBR content in SL being upgraded for PBR viewers with more subdued colours even if it doesn't get PBR textures.
Other differences will be more glaring. I mean, a lot of pre-PBR content was made to look good on toasters with absolute minimum graphics settings. Plenty of it was ripped and taken to OpenSim. You can see it everywhere: baked-on shadows, baked-on highlights, baked-on reflections/shininess and not even the faintest trace of Blinn-Phong. Putting such content next to PBR content on a PBR-enabled sim will look inconsistent, but then again, so is putting it next to content with Blinn-Phong already now. Think old prim kitchen appliances next to Arcadia's Espresso Machine.
And look around typical sims here in OpenSim. Many sim builders have no problems plopping down ripped SL mesh buildings with baked-on everything right next to simple prim buildings that look like 2007 because they're even set to full bright, thus circumventing the shaders.
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OpenSim 0.9.3.0 supports PBR. OSgrid's official sims, the Plazas, are all PBR-capable as has been proven. I've seen a picture made by Hicks Adder showing a working mirror at one of the Sandbox Plazas, and I suspect that beat-up sci-fi helmet on display at Lbsa Plaza to use PBR.
As far as textures go, both SL and OpenSim have a fallback: Every surface can have both a set of PBR textures and a set of traditional non-PBR/Blinn-Phong textures. The latter are used in non-PBR viewers, the former are used in PBR viewers. You only get grey surfaces if the traditional textures are missing.
In addition, OpenSim also has fallback textures for the ground. Second Life doesn't; it doesn't seem to need them. After all, two versions from now, the non-PBR versions of both the official viewer and Firestorm will no longer be allowed. OpenSim doesn't have this rule, and there are still people using Firestorm as old as 6.0.2 although it doesn't support BoM, and BoM has no viable fallback.
As for the demand for PBR, it will come. Just like BoM came. For now, there won't be much happening, what with how few places support it, how rough around the edges the first PBR Firestorm is, and how few people actually know what BoM is. It's similar to the spring of 2020. All places that ran on vanilla OpenSim had at least basic BoM support, but Firestorm 6.3.9 was so buggy that everyone stuck with Firestorm 6.0.2 with no BoM support. The only BoM content available were a few basically unknown Ruth 2.0 or RuthToo forks with basic BoM and, released in May, Roth2 v2 with scripted BoM which nobody would ever had heard of either if I hadn't peddled it.
Then, in July, came Athena 6 which most OpenSim users take for the first BoM body in OpenSim, in August came Adonis 4, both with very basic and actually incomplete BoM, and in autumn came Firestorm 6.4.13 which fixed Firestorm 6.3.9's show-stopper bug. Still, nobody really knew what BoM was, and even only few people stopped using skin appliers and actually started using BoM. But that teal "Free Bakes on Mesh" label became synonymous for "the newest hottest shit you can possibly put on your avatar". Still today, hardly anyone really fleshes BoM out, also because nobody dares to rip new layer clothes from SL because they'll be perceived as ugly, out-dated crap.
For the near future, I can see two things happen. One, at least one new Firestorm version irons out the rough edges of 7.1.9. (Sorry, no way back to having forward rendering without ALM.) Two, someone starts ripping shit-tons of PBR content from SL and offering it in their freebie store with a brand-new, custom PBR logo on it. Either that'll happen at iPleasure or Darkhearts, boosting either even more, or that'll happen on an entirely new sim which has the chance of becoming more popular than iPleasure and Darkhearts.
Either way, while still nobody will know what it actually means, PBR will replace EvoX as the label for the new hotness, just like EvoX replaced BoM. Also, nobody will really flesh PBR out because, just like now, nobody will be bothered to install light sources anywhere on their sims.
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As far as textures go, both SL and OpenSim have a fallback: Every surface can have both a set of PBR textures and a set of traditional non-PBR/Blinn-Phong textures. The latter are used in non-PBR viewers, the former are used in PBR viewers. You only get grey surfaces if the traditional textures are missing.
In addition, OpenSim also has fallback textures for the ground. Second Life doesn't; it doesn't seem to need them. After all, two versions from now, the non-PBR versions of both the official viewer and Firestorm will no longer be allowed. OpenSim doesn't have this rule, and there are still people using Firestorm as old as 6.0.2 although it doesn't support BoM, and BoM has no viable fallback.
As for the demand for PBR, it will come. Just like BoM came. For now, there won't be much happening, what with how few places support it, how rough around the edges the first PBR Firestorm is, and how few people actually know what BoM is. It's similar to the spring of 2020. All places that ran on vanilla OpenSim had at least basic BoM support, but Firestorm 6.3.9 was so buggy that everyone stuck with Firestorm 6.0.2 with no BoM support. The only BoM content available were a few basically unknown Ruth 2.0 or RuthToo forks with basic BoM and, released in May, Roth2 v2 with scripted BoM which nobody would ever had heard of either if I hadn't peddled it.
Then, in July, came Athena 6 which most OpenSim users take for the first BoM body in OpenSim, in August came Adonis 4, both with very basic and actually incomplete BoM, and in autumn came Firestorm 6.4.13 which fixed Firestorm 6.3.9's show-stopper bug. Still, nobody really knew what BoM was, and even only few people stopped using skin appliers and actually started using BoM. But that teal "Free Bakes on Mesh" label became synonymous for "the newest hottest shit you can possibly put on your avatar". Still today, hardly anyone really fleshes BoM out, also because nobody dares to rip new layer clothes from SL because they'll be perceived as ugly, out-dated crap.
For the near future, I can see two things happen. One, at least one new Firestorm version irons out the rough edges of 7.1.9. (Sorry, no way back to having forward rendering without ALM.) Two, someone starts ripping shit-tons of PBR content from SL and offering it in their freebie store with a brand-new, custom PBR logo on it. Either that'll happen at iPleasure or Darkhearts, boosting either even more, or that'll happen on an entirely new sim which has the chance of becoming more popular than iPleasure and Darkhearts.
Either way, while still nobody will know what it actually means, PBR will replace EvoX as the label for the new hotness, just like EvoX replaced BoM. Also, nobody will really flesh PBR out because, just like now, nobody will be bothered to install light sources anywhere on their sims.
Thank you so much! If there was a "love" option I would have selected that instead of "like". That is the most concise and informed assessment is have seen from the OS side of PBR. I also think your forecast about how it will reach here is spot on. As I said in another post. It will not happen tomorrow, nor should it, but it will happen. I for one think that is a good thing. There is no reason on earth that something as goofy as 3DXChat should have better graphics AND better framerates than OS. One question I have for you is about "Exposure". If I am running a grid on 0.9.3.0 and I log in with a PBR capable viewer, isn't everything going to look different because of the color setting, regardless of if I have PBR textures anywhere or not? Thanks again for the info and for putting it in language even I can understand =)
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Everything looks different in a PBR-enabled viewer, even if you should manage to visit a grid that still runs a long-dead fork that's largely on the same level as 0.8.0.0 or so. You'll always have a higher contrast, more vivid colours and shiny surfaces actually reflecting something.
The only server-side change is the support for PBR textures in content. Everything else from actually rendering PBR textures to lighting to colour handling (high dynamic range!) is done viewer-side.
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The only server-side change is the support for PBR textures in content. Everything else from actually rendering PBR textures to lighting to colour handling (high dynamic range!) is done viewer-side.
Thank you again, I am learning a bit with each reply! That is also in line with what I am hearing from a few in SL. In a PBR viewer, everything has that high contrast and vivid colors, so that is just going to be the world we live in for a bit. Ca you tell me what textures the new viewer supports/needs? Specual and Normal maps I am sure of obviously. And likely and Ambient Occlusion map? Is there more than those three texture layers?
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It's obvious that they're in a rush.
One could say they shouldn't be. After all, most of their competition is geared towards VR headsets that couldn't properly render anything close to SL. So they end up with a minimum of limbs, sometimes even only a cartoonish head, a torso and two hands, and with tinted surfaces because they've sacrificed textures for FPS.
But for one, SL's population is aging. SL desperately needs fresh blood to replace residents who are literally dying of old age. The investors who own SL won't be pleased if the population shrinks, and it currently stagnates. So SL which has mostly been interesting to Baby Boomers since the hype is over needs to be attractive to younger users. Making it look more modern is thought to be one key. Even though SL already blows away all VR-centred commercial competition graphics-wise, Cyberpunk 2077 still looks better. Of course, this overlooks that the main reason why hardly anyone joins SL to stick around is the Eiger north face of learning curves, the total lack of railroading of the kind that experienced MMO gamers expect and "game clients" that are every bit as complex as professional CAD applications.
And besides, AFAIK, now that "the Metaverse is dead" and privately-owned VR goggles along with it, new pancake worlds are emerging that don't have to restrict themselves to what passively-cooled, battery-powered mobile hardware can render at a steady 60fps. And they can use the latest Unreal Engine or Unity instead of a scratch-made engine based on turn-of-the-millennium technology. So at least graphics-wise, SL will have to face serious competition.
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One could say they shouldn't be. After all, most of their competition is geared towards VR headsets that couldn't properly render anything close to SL. So they end up with a minimum of limbs, sometimes even only a cartoonish head, a torso and two hands, and with tinted surfaces because they've sacrificed textures for FPS.
But for one, SL's population is aging. SL desperately needs fresh blood to replace residents who are literally dying of old age. The investors who own SL won't be pleased if the population shrinks, and it currently stagnates. So SL which has mostly been interesting to Baby Boomers since the hype is over needs to be attractive to younger users. Making it look more modern is thought to be one key. Even though SL already blows away all VR-centred commercial competition graphics-wise, Cyberpunk 2077 still looks better. Of course, this overlooks that the main reason why hardly anyone joins SL to stick around is the Eiger north face of learning curves, the total lack of railroading of the kind that experienced MMO gamers expect and "game clients" that are every bit as complex as professional CAD applications.
And besides, AFAIK, now that "the Metaverse is dead" and privately-owned VR goggles along with it, new pancake worlds are emerging that don't have to restrict themselves to what passively-cooled, battery-powered mobile hardware can render at a steady 60fps. And they can use the latest Unreal Engine or Unity instead of a scratch-made engine based on turn-of-the-millennium technology. So at least graphics-wise, SL will have to face serious competition.
I think you hit the nail on the head in that last paragraph. With Phillip Rosedle back at LL, I dont think there is any desire at all to move down the VR route. He learned the hard way with High Fidelity that that is a dead end and will be for some time. That is why the VR viewer was scrapped and there has been almost zero effort to revive it. That leaves, as you pointed out, competing with world's easily built on top of Unreal Engine or Unity. The "scratch-made" engine SL uses is and has been a huge anvil around its neck and I think they are trying really hard to drag it kicking and screaming to a point where it can near Unity or Unreal Engine. This is a big step in that direction.
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Linden Lab may be secretly working on an engine upgrade. Secretly because they don't know yet if it'll fly, and they know that anything that even remotely appears like an announcement is taken by the community for a promise. But they can't wait until it's done before they roll out a visuals upgrade. They need SL to look like Cyberpunk 2077 NOW.
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And after the windfall they got in the sale of Tlla, they now have cash to burn, so they might as well burn it on SL. And yes, the second they mention it, a LOT of people will be wanting it yesterday. The big question is, can they do the engine upgrade without breaking years and years of people's content? (You will take my prim hair when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!) If not, that might be also why they are quiet about it.
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there is something against modernizing or developing something further... but you should do it right. At the moment even FS recommends that double the performance is expected as a minimum. And that's because of a bit of bling bling. Static buildings... static clothing that moves statically with the bones but not like clothing. Some progress is animesh.
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When SL accommodates old people, OpenSimulator is the primary meeting place for advanced professional retirees XD
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SL is stagnating while OpenSim which has a) the same graphics, b) an even worse learning curve and c) nobody to help you with it is growing. Let that sink in.
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SL, or LL to be more specific, is doing just fine. At least businesswise that is. If you are going by land mass, then yes, yhey are at a standstill and OS is flourishing. The reasons for that are obvious and have more to with LL's overpriced land than anything. Population and activity wise, SL is doing just fine. They have about the same amount of people, but those people are spending almost twice as much money than they did before! Daily transactions have almost tripled in the last five years, and remember LL gets a piece of that. Also, their paid memberships and lifetime membership have grown.
The truth of the matter though is that SL is not the engine that drives LL anymore. It has not been for time. That role is taken over by Tilla. Despite what Glenn may tell you with the most colorful language, the "3 Libtards" who own LL amazingly well for themselves. Tilla does not just handle transactions for SL, but it is used by VR Chat and other worlds. Tilla is nothing less than the 3 Amigos old a HUGE piece of Tilla off to Thunes. (A pretty blatant capitalistic move for "libtards".) They are now yach shopping and now have a ton of cash to spend. And it looks like they are spending a lot it on trying to drag the technology that was strewn together at the start of Second Life into something more in line with how game developers build their worlds today. LL, and SL by default. It will not happen at OS today or even tomorrow, nor should it, but it will happen.
Oh shoot. Also, thank you for the link to the textures, I have picked up several nice wood textures already!
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The truth of the matter though is that SL is not the engine that drives LL anymore. It has not been for time. That role is taken over by Tilla. Despite what Glenn may tell you with the most colorful language, the "3 Libtards" who own LL amazingly well for themselves. Tilla does not just handle transactions for SL, but it is used by VR Chat and other worlds. Tilla is nothing less than the 3 Amigos old a HUGE piece of Tilla off to Thunes. (A pretty blatant capitalistic move for "libtards".) They are now yach shopping and now have a ton of cash to spend. And it looks like they are spending a lot it on trying to drag the technology that was strewn together at the start of Second Life into something more in line with how game developers build their worlds today. LL, and SL by default. It will not happen at OS today or even tomorrow, nor should it, but it will happen.
Oh shoot. Also, thank you for the link to the textures, I have picked up several nice wood textures already!
Despite all the talk of its death, SL is doing quite fine and will be around for a long, long time. With the money LL is making elsewhere, it does not need SL to grow fast, but just to keep growing a little, which it does. That also means evolving though, and I think that upsets a lot of people, though I do not really see how you can avoid that.
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Another thing that occurred to me is that the user numbers determined (hypergrid business) definitely include a lot of ALT avatars and relogs. Sorry, but if you look beyond DH, OSGrid Event and a handful of other event regions, 99% of the OpenSimulator regions are empty or full of NPCs. I think that the advertised huge growth is an illusion of false numbers.
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give it time... I don't see anything growing... I see refugees because of AgePlay... and if you look at DH I also know where the growth is. What is growing are almost 140,000 mainly empty standard regions
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Versuch mal hg.vivosim.net:8002:Sandy Island. Wenn das nicht geht, gibt's die Sim nicht mehr.
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aber womit, ich habe ja nicht mal einen Avatar? mein alter Avatar ist wohl mit dem Mann gelöscht worden, der inzwischen verstorben ist - der baute immer bei Genie Fegte auf der Grid
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Du kannst dir doch jederzeit irgendwo einen neuen Avatar anlegen.
Im Zweifel geh ins OSgrid, von da aus kannst du dich immer noch umgucken nach einem Grid, das dir gefällt, und den Avatar im OSgrid als Reserve nehmen.
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Im Zweifel geh ins OSgrid, von da aus kannst du dich immer noch umgucken nach einem Grid, das dir gefällt, und den Avatar im OSgrid als Reserve nehmen.
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If the Caribou on your list the same one I'm thinking of, you can remove it.
Not only has it moved several times since (> Kitely > ZetaWorlds > OSgrid > its own grid), but it has been shut down a few months ago because it appears like Jeanne Lefavre has been bullied out of OpenSim.
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Not only has it moved several times since (> Kitely > ZetaWorlds > OSgrid > its own grid), but it has been shut down a few months ago because it appears like Jeanne Lefavre has been bullied out of OpenSim.
I've deleted it from the list. PM if you have any information that it was due to LGBT+ bullying. Thanks
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You want to integrate something like a "rainbow flag flag" in GridPuppy?
Sounds like a good idea to me, and I'm curious especially about the implementation in-world.
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Sounds like a good idea to me, and I'm curious especially about the implementation in-world.
Actually the idea of a little rainbow flag, or some kind of indication that a place is LGBT welcoming.. That can be done anywhere, even here. That would be more of a social campaign, asking region, grid and club owners to make a commitment and clear that all are welcome, and bullying is not allowed.
Maybe put a little rainbow heart in the corner of their place profile pic. It would just take a lot of people asking venue owners to do that, if they are so inclined.
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Maybe put a little rainbow heart in the corner of their place profile pic. It would just take a lot of people asking venue owners to do that, if they are so inclined.
I have just been letting gridpuppy sit for the time being. With all the fighting that had been going on, I felt like it would be best to let things simmer down for a while. Otherwise it would all just spill over to the new thing. I'd really like to get started with it, over the summer on a really positive footing. Does that make sense? It just seems like a bad idea to do something, simply because everyone is angry.
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First of all, you've downloaded Firestorm for OpenSim? Firestorm for Second Life won't work with OpenSim.
Next, you'll also need to register an avatar in an OpenSim grid.
The easy way, so you don't have to choose: Visit OSgrid - https://osgrid.org/ - and create an account there. OSgrid is one of the biggest grids, and I'd say it's at least good for starting in OpenSim.
Then you can enter your OSgrid login credentials in Firestorm.
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Next, you'll also need to register an avatar in an OpenSim grid.
The easy way, so you don't have to choose: Visit OSgrid - https://osgrid.org/ - and create an account there. OSgrid is one of the biggest grids, and I'd say it's at least good for starting in OpenSim.
Then you can enter your OSgrid login credentials in Firestorm.