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Jupiter Rowland @JupiterRowland
Germany (Real Reality™), Dorenas World (virtual reality), OSgrid (secondary virtual reality)
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Far-travelled on the Hypergrid and convinced of Roth2 v2. |
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Unfortunately, traffic and traffic ranking does play a huge role in OpenSim. Sims that don't have high traffic numbers are on the verge of being invisible. Nobody is willing to flip through pages on sim lists that far back. People want quick and easy results.
This is why ca. 90% of all freebie shopping traffic went to Darkhearts when they still published their numbers. They managed to kickstart it with a whole lot of advertising plus a whole lot of exclusive, brand-new content largely on the same quality of the newest, hottest stuff on SL. And people piled onto that sim to get that content, and more people piled onto that sim because there were so many people on that sim, and because it was constantly in the top 10.
I guess, just like the R. Lion sim, it still gets lots of traffic in the shape of people who find stuff from there on other sims, can't pick it up because it's no-transfer and then go pick it up at the source.
If you haven't got anything new and exciting to offer, but you still don't want your sim to slip out of the top 10 and into obscurity which is largely the same unless your sim is a big name, you have to fabricate traffic.
The most "convincing" way is to tell some of your friends to park their avatars on your sim and keep them logged in 24/7. Then you can claim it's all regular user traffic.
If you don't know enough people who are willing to leave a computer with a viewer running all day and all night, you have to make your own traffic by creating simple alts and parking them on your sim as bots with no other apparent purpose.
Why? Because nobody will come visit your sim otherwise.
Especially not total OpenSim newbies. They don't know OSW-the-website. But they keep seeing the OSW beacons all over the place. And they take them for nifty Hypergrid teleporters. If you click on the touchscreen of a beacon, it lists the 10 most active sims. It's largely only these 10 sims that get any exposure through the beacons because especially newbies can't be arsed to go find the scroll buttons, let alone use them. And they want to go where people are because where people are has to be a cool place, right?
The popularity ranking is for luring those who already know the website, but who don't know it well enough to know that the popularity ranking is bogus and largely fabricated. They're likely to believe that popular = cool. And they, too, can't be arsed to flip through dozens of pages with sims if the first one or two pages promise to offer the hottest shit in OpenSim.
But seriously, even those of you who know all these dirty tricks, and who can see behind them: How far do you ever go through OpenSim's sim listings? When was the last time you've visited a sim that has been listed for a year or longer, that's at #700 or lower on the popularity ranking, that you weren't invited to, and that isn't yours?
See? Traffic generates traffic. And fake traffic is way too good at generating actual traffic.
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This is why ca. 90% of all freebie shopping traffic went to Darkhearts when they still published their numbers. They managed to kickstart it with a whole lot of advertising plus a whole lot of exclusive, brand-new content largely on the same quality of the newest, hottest stuff on SL. And people piled onto that sim to get that content, and more people piled onto that sim because there were so many people on that sim, and because it was constantly in the top 10.
I guess, just like the R. Lion sim, it still gets lots of traffic in the shape of people who find stuff from there on other sims, can't pick it up because it's no-transfer and then go pick it up at the source.
If you haven't got anything new and exciting to offer, but you still don't want your sim to slip out of the top 10 and into obscurity which is largely the same unless your sim is a big name, you have to fabricate traffic.
The most "convincing" way is to tell some of your friends to park their avatars on your sim and keep them logged in 24/7. Then you can claim it's all regular user traffic.
If you don't know enough people who are willing to leave a computer with a viewer running all day and all night, you have to make your own traffic by creating simple alts and parking them on your sim as bots with no other apparent purpose.
Why? Because nobody will come visit your sim otherwise.
Especially not total OpenSim newbies. They don't know OSW-the-website. But they keep seeing the OSW beacons all over the place. And they take them for nifty Hypergrid teleporters. If you click on the touchscreen of a beacon, it lists the 10 most active sims. It's largely only these 10 sims that get any exposure through the beacons because especially newbies can't be arsed to go find the scroll buttons, let alone use them. And they want to go where people are because where people are has to be a cool place, right?
The popularity ranking is for luring those who already know the website, but who don't know it well enough to know that the popularity ranking is bogus and largely fabricated. They're likely to believe that popular = cool. And they, too, can't be arsed to flip through dozens of pages with sims if the first one or two pages promise to offer the hottest shit in OpenSim.
But seriously, even those of you who know all these dirty tricks, and who can see behind them: How far do you ever go through OpenSim's sim listings? When was the last time you've visited a sim that has been listed for a year or longer, that's at #700 or lower on the popularity ranking, that you weren't invited to, and that isn't yours?
See? Traffic generates traffic. And fake traffic is way too good at generating actual traffic.
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Okay, hier sind mehr deutschsprachige wöchentliche Events:
Dienstag, 20.00 Uhr bis ca. 22.00 Uhr: Rubeus' musikalische Rumpelkiste
DJ: Rubeus Helgerud
Keine festgelegten Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Verschiedene Locations, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/237/175/22 (Frühjahr, Herbst)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/41/153/22 (Sommer)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/60/62/31 oder hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/36/14/22 (Winter)
(evtl. auf der Karte gucken; eine von drei Locations je nach Jahreszeit; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und zumindest im Winter in einem Gebäude mit zwei Stockwerken)
Erster Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty im Bluewave Club
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Pyramid, OSgrid
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80180
hop://hg.osgrid.org:80/Pyramid/171/151/16
Zweiter bis vorletzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Bluewave, Dereos
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80333
hop://dereos.org:80/Bluewave/115/90/23
Letzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Clubparty in wechselnder Location
DJ: Malon Wyngard
Selten festgelegtes Genre, manchmal festgelegte Ära, durchweg älteres Zeug
Manhattan Loft Party Location (momentan meistens) oder Beatclub oder Moka Efti, Dereos (wird dienstags von Rubeus und am vorherigen Mittwoch von Akira angekündigt)
hop://dereos.org:80/ManhattanLoft/150/204/1326
hop://dereos.org:80/Beatclub
hop://dereos.org:80/Malons sunny Island/234/48/1664
Donnerstag, 20.00 Uhr (mit Vorprogramm noch früher) bis 22.00 Uhr: Budenzauber
DJ: Bogus Curry
Häufig grob festgelegtes Genre und dann gern blueslastig
Keule, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/214/198/22 (evtl. auf der Karte gucken; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und in einem Gebäude ohne Fenster)
Freitag, 19.00 Uhr bis Mitternacht: Rock-House
DJ: Anachron Young
Selten festgelegtes Genre, meistens festgelegtes Thema (+ traditionelles "Take Five" gegen 20.00 Uhr)
Rock-House, Nihilon, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78058
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/247/152/23 (dann im einzigen Gebäude in der Gegend; zur Not auf der Karte gucken)
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Dienstag, 20.00 Uhr bis ca. 22.00 Uhr: Rubeus' musikalische Rumpelkiste
DJ: Rubeus Helgerud
Keine festgelegten Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Verschiedene Locations, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/237/175/22 (Frühjahr, Herbst)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/41/153/22 (Sommer)
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/60/62/31 oder hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/36/14/22 (Winter)
(evtl. auf der Karte gucken; eine von drei Locations je nach Jahreszeit; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und zumindest im Winter in einem Gebäude mit zwei Stockwerken)
Erster Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty im Bluewave Club
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Pyramid, OSgrid
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80180
hop://hg.osgrid.org:80/Pyramid/171/151/16
Zweiter bis vorletzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Doppelparty
DJs: Dereos, Akira Sonoda
Nicht zwingend festgelegte Genres, manchmal festgelegtes Thema
Bluewave, Dereos
https://opensimworld.com/hop/80333
hop://dereos.org:80/Bluewave/115/90/23
Letzter Mittwoch im Monat, 20.00 Uhr bis 23.00 Uhr: Clubparty in wechselnder Location
DJ: Malon Wyngard
Selten festgelegtes Genre, manchmal festgelegte Ära, durchweg älteres Zeug
Manhattan Loft Party Location (momentan meistens) oder Beatclub oder Moka Efti, Dereos (wird dienstags von Rubeus und am vorherigen Mittwoch von Akira angekündigt)
hop://dereos.org:80/ManhattanLoft/150/204/1326
hop://dereos.org:80/Beatclub
hop://dereos.org:80/Malons sunny Island/234/48/1664
Donnerstag, 20.00 Uhr (mit Vorprogramm noch früher) bis 22.00 Uhr: Budenzauber
DJ: Bogus Curry
Häufig grob festgelegtes Genre und dann gern blueslastig
Keule, Gridtalk, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78056
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Gridtalk/214/198/22 (evtl. auf der Karte gucken; das Event ist nicht am Hauptlandeplatz und in einem Gebäude ohne Fenster)
Freitag, 19.00 Uhr bis Mitternacht: Rock-House
DJ: Anachron Young
Selten festgelegtes Genre, meistens festgelegtes Thema (+ traditionelles "Take Five" gegen 20.00 Uhr)
Rock-House, Nihilon, Dorenas World
https://opensimworld.com/hop/78058
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/247/152/23 (dann im einzigen Gebäude in der Gegend; zur Not auf der Karte gucken)
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Suchst du Club-Gebäude, also Objekte, oder Club-Partys, also Events?
Falls letzteres, dann hätte ich noch ein paar Tips für deutschsprachige Events Dienstag bis Freitag, die hier nicht als Events angekündigt werden.
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Falls letzteres, dann hätte ich noch ein paar Tips für deutschsprachige Events Dienstag bis Freitag, die hier nicht als Events angekündigt werden.
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Won't somebody think of the...
...um...
...suspensions?
You don't want her to sit in anything that doesn't have leaf springs all around!
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...um...
...suspensions?
You don't want her to sit in anything that doesn't have leaf springs all around!
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While this isn't on-topic with my original post: I'm okay with shops that offer stuff for perfectly clean children's outfits.
But whenever I see a kids' shop that offers fully nude skins and scripted boy dicks, it seriously makes me wonder.
Is that shop owner so clueless about what's in the boxes in spite of what's shown on them? I mean, I know that next to no shopkeep in the Hypergrid curates their stuff, and many slap boxes with broken permissions or even empty boxes against their shop walls, but seriously.
Has that shop owner only hung up that stuff for completion's sake, hoping in all seriousness that nobody will buy it?
Is that shop owner naïve enough to believe that THEIR customers will ALL only acquire that stuff to play nudist family?
Is that shop owner so out of the loop that they're completely unaware of the existence of paedo ageplayers both generally and in OpenSim specifically, so they can't imagine these items could possibly be acquired for sexual purposes?
Does that shop owner know but (pretend to) not care who acquires that stuff and what for?
Is that shop owner secretly (or not so secretly) a proud paedo supplier? Or paedo themselves?
Or does that shop owner secretly have a logger script running to identify avatars who come and pick up that stuff, and the shop is nothing but a paedo honeypot after all?
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But whenever I see a kids' shop that offers fully nude skins and scripted boy dicks, it seriously makes me wonder.
Is that shop owner so clueless about what's in the boxes in spite of what's shown on them? I mean, I know that next to no shopkeep in the Hypergrid curates their stuff, and many slap boxes with broken permissions or even empty boxes against their shop walls, but seriously.
Has that shop owner only hung up that stuff for completion's sake, hoping in all seriousness that nobody will buy it?
Is that shop owner naïve enough to believe that THEIR customers will ALL only acquire that stuff to play nudist family?
Is that shop owner so out of the loop that they're completely unaware of the existence of paedo ageplayers both generally and in OpenSim specifically, so they can't imagine these items could possibly be acquired for sexual purposes?
Does that shop owner know but (pretend to) not care who acquires that stuff and what for?
Is that shop owner secretly (or not so secretly) a proud paedo supplier? Or paedo themselves?
Or does that shop owner secretly have a logger script running to identify avatars who come and pick up that stuff, and the shop is nothing but a paedo honeypot after all?
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"Why do people persist in trying to go to places which have a specific purpose or theme, and not fit into that purpose or theme?"
Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is.
I think some intentionally break dress codes to demonstrate how utterly they despise role-playing in any shape or form.
I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway.
Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated.
At events that encourage or require nudity, there are those who a) are too prudish or too badass to strip down and b) couldn't possibly imagine for the life of them that anyone else actually would. At least not until they arrive there. After five minutes of waiting in vain for the clothes on the female avatars to rez, or after 30 seconds when the dicks on the male avatars have rezzed, they often nope out again anyway, so they aren't much of a problem.
Not being able to dress in a certain way because there's no fitting clothing of that kind for your body doesn't play such a big role. If I can't dress appropriately for an occasion, and I usually can't, then I don't go there, plain and simple.
I even refused to go to beaches for quite a while unless they were nude beaches. The reason: I have a Roth2 v2. There is absolutely no mesh beachwear that fits on this body. And layer swim shorts look ridiculous on me without a bulge. In fact, I had absolutely nothing I could credibly wear on a beach. I only started to go to non-nude beaches after I'd managed to re-texture some sculpty bulges for some layer swim shorts. Before then, I always sent Juno because layer swimwear looks better on her.
I think this only becomes an issue if you attend an event although you neither want to nor really can, but you have to because you were invited by someone who insists in your presence. For example, if someone absolutely wants you to attend the opening party of their fetish sim, dress code is latex, full stop, but you've got a Ruth 2.0 for which no latex clothes exist, and you refuse to wear stolen Athena clothes which may not even fit properly anyway. Then you can choose between coming as you are and breaking the dress code, coming naked which you think is sexy enough and still breaking the dress code or letting your sim owner friend down by not coming at all.
Now, this goes for single sims and mostly for specific events on those sims.
An entire grid with a specific dress code has to be monothematic and therefore tiny with no third-party sims whatsoever. I don't know any such grid from the top of my head. Even Littlefield isn't all about BDSM and doesn't require fetish outfits everywhere.
Okay, now let's imagine a hypothetic medium-small grid that's all about glitz and glam and showing off. Where everyone has a Lamborghini Veneno, of which only three were made IRL, as a daily driver. Two dozen sims dedicated to this in various ways. It's actually grid-wide dress code.
But there's one sim on that same grid where someone offers self-made, therefore legal, freebies. Let's suppose they're actually quite useful clothes for legal, made-in-OpenSim-for-OpenSim mesh bodies of a kind and in a quality that you can't find anywhere else, also because they're no-transfer exclusives. In other words, exactly what Juno and I need.
That sim is in that grid because the sim owner is friends with the grid owner, the previous grid which hosted that sim had gone down, the sim needed a new home ASAP, and the grid owner owed the sim owner one.
However, none of us can dress in the style required for the grid. There are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Roth2 v2, there are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Ruth2 v4, and both of us refuse to switch to stolen bodies with stolen heads, stolen skins, stolen hair, stolen clothes and stolen shoes just for that sim.
The only chance we'd have if we don't want to pass on that content, and we don't, is to sneak into the grid when there's nobody else online and hope that our mesh bodies and our clothes are too obscure for the grid server to have them blacklisted for not being glamourous enough.
Or a variant on this: Imagine a grid whose owner has openly stated that Athena Petite is an underage body, full stop, and therefore banned on their entire grid, full stop, because allegedly, everyone who uses this body is a paedo.
Now imagine you've got an avatar based on Athena Petite because you find Athena's boobs too unnaturally big, and you wanted your avatar to be more realistic and believable. You've actually managed to make your avatar look like a realistic, fully grown-up real-life woman. No doubt that your avatar is definitely not underage. Maybe even to the point that people say you dress like a grandma.
Okay, now imagine you absolutely have to go to that grid. There's a sim that offers exclusive content which you absolutely need, or your best friend is going to get married on that very grid, or your favourite weekly event has moved into this very grid, or whatever.
What'd you do? Pass on that content/your best friend's wedding because your presence is not tolerated on the grid because your avatar is allegedly a kid because it's an Athena Petite? Go anyway, just to let yourself be perma-banned? Pester your friend to get married elsewhere?
Throw your principles and the general look of your avatar overboard, get yourself a regular Athena and increase your boobs six-fold just to survive a trip to that grid?
If that isn't relatable enough, we could try another required dress code for a whole grid: business attire. For female avatars, this means: Blazer jacket. Pencil skirt. No bare legs, nylon is an absolute requirement. Medium heels, no flats, no high heels. Spoiler: That's actually doable with an Athena, but very difficult. In fact, it's easier with a Ruth2 v4 and 100% legal clothing, especially if you know how to make your own alpha masks (or you could ask, and you may get what you need).
Again, you absolutely need to go to that grid. What'd you do? Break the dress code, stay out or go insane trying to piece the required look together that you may think won't even look good on you?
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Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is.
I think some intentionally break dress codes to demonstrate how utterly they despise role-playing in any shape or form.
I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway.
Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated.
At events that encourage or require nudity, there are those who a) are too prudish or too badass to strip down and b) couldn't possibly imagine for the life of them that anyone else actually would. At least not until they arrive there. After five minutes of waiting in vain for the clothes on the female avatars to rez, or after 30 seconds when the dicks on the male avatars have rezzed, they often nope out again anyway, so they aren't much of a problem.
Not being able to dress in a certain way because there's no fitting clothing of that kind for your body doesn't play such a big role. If I can't dress appropriately for an occasion, and I usually can't, then I don't go there, plain and simple.
I even refused to go to beaches for quite a while unless they were nude beaches. The reason: I have a Roth2 v2. There is absolutely no mesh beachwear that fits on this body. And layer swim shorts look ridiculous on me without a bulge. In fact, I had absolutely nothing I could credibly wear on a beach. I only started to go to non-nude beaches after I'd managed to re-texture some sculpty bulges for some layer swim shorts. Before then, I always sent Juno because layer swimwear looks better on her.
I think this only becomes an issue if you attend an event although you neither want to nor really can, but you have to because you were invited by someone who insists in your presence. For example, if someone absolutely wants you to attend the opening party of their fetish sim, dress code is latex, full stop, but you've got a Ruth 2.0 for which no latex clothes exist, and you refuse to wear stolen Athena clothes which may not even fit properly anyway. Then you can choose between coming as you are and breaking the dress code, coming naked which you think is sexy enough and still breaking the dress code or letting your sim owner friend down by not coming at all.
Now, this goes for single sims and mostly for specific events on those sims.
An entire grid with a specific dress code has to be monothematic and therefore tiny with no third-party sims whatsoever. I don't know any such grid from the top of my head. Even Littlefield isn't all about BDSM and doesn't require fetish outfits everywhere.
Okay, now let's imagine a hypothetic medium-small grid that's all about glitz and glam and showing off. Where everyone has a Lamborghini Veneno, of which only three were made IRL, as a daily driver. Two dozen sims dedicated to this in various ways. It's actually grid-wide dress code.
But there's one sim on that same grid where someone offers self-made, therefore legal, freebies. Let's suppose they're actually quite useful clothes for legal, made-in-OpenSim-for-OpenSim mesh bodies of a kind and in a quality that you can't find anywhere else, also because they're no-transfer exclusives. In other words, exactly what Juno and I need.
That sim is in that grid because the sim owner is friends with the grid owner, the previous grid which hosted that sim had gone down, the sim needed a new home ASAP, and the grid owner owed the sim owner one.
However, none of us can dress in the style required for the grid. There are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Roth2 v2, there are no legal clothes for that theme that could possibly be worn on Ruth2 v4, and both of us refuse to switch to stolen bodies with stolen heads, stolen skins, stolen hair, stolen clothes and stolen shoes just for that sim.
The only chance we'd have if we don't want to pass on that content, and we don't, is to sneak into the grid when there's nobody else online and hope that our mesh bodies and our clothes are too obscure for the grid server to have them blacklisted for not being glamourous enough.
Or a variant on this: Imagine a grid whose owner has openly stated that Athena Petite is an underage body, full stop, and therefore banned on their entire grid, full stop, because allegedly, everyone who uses this body is a paedo.
Now imagine you've got an avatar based on Athena Petite because you find Athena's boobs too unnaturally big, and you wanted your avatar to be more realistic and believable. You've actually managed to make your avatar look like a realistic, fully grown-up real-life woman. No doubt that your avatar is definitely not underage. Maybe even to the point that people say you dress like a grandma.
Okay, now imagine you absolutely have to go to that grid. There's a sim that offers exclusive content which you absolutely need, or your best friend is going to get married on that very grid, or your favourite weekly event has moved into this very grid, or whatever.
What'd you do? Pass on that content/your best friend's wedding because your presence is not tolerated on the grid because your avatar is allegedly a kid because it's an Athena Petite? Go anyway, just to let yourself be perma-banned? Pester your friend to get married elsewhere?
Throw your principles and the general look of your avatar overboard, get yourself a regular Athena and increase your boobs six-fold just to survive a trip to that grid?
If that isn't relatable enough, we could try another required dress code for a whole grid: business attire. For female avatars, this means: Blazer jacket. Pencil skirt. No bare legs, nylon is an absolute requirement. Medium heels, no flats, no high heels. Spoiler: That's actually doable with an Athena, but very difficult. In fact, it's easier with a Ruth2 v4 and 100% legal clothing, especially if you know how to make your own alpha masks (or you could ask, and you may get what you need).
Again, you absolutely need to go to that grid. What'd you do? Break the dress code, stay out or go insane trying to piece the required look together that you may think won't even look good on you?
Sorry Jupiter, you're throwing up some pretty unlikely hypotheticals.
I wrote a long response but it boiled down to a principal I hold dear: My Home, My Rules.
That's how I operate in RL, in SL, and in OS.
In my RL home, in my SL mainland plot, and in my region in OS ... the rules are what I say they are. Obviously within the constraints of the society I am embedded in. So I have to comply with RL Law, SL TOS, and the TOS that my grid owners required that I agree to.
The same, I imagine, applies to your RL home.
If, for instance, you had a rule for entering your home which I believed I could not comply with ... I would either (a) not enter it or (b) ask you to wave that rule. If you refused to wave the rule I would leave.
Because it would not matter WHY I felt I couldn't comply with that rule ... perhaps it might conflict with my religion or my principals, but it's YOUR home and YOU get to set the rules. The minute we insist on overriding that it stops being your home.
If I have a rule in my region (still locked down after 6 years of construction ... when I build, I build BIG :) that says "Do not do X" then you either obey the rule, convince me to wave it in your case, or you get out. I don't have to rationalise or justify it ... because it's MY home.
That basically addresses everything in your reply.
Now I'll address some finer points: In SL I use the HG body. Nobody would suggest that body is infantile. But, for a bet, I made a barely-pubescent avatar using that body. And I found sufficient free items (because I wasn't going to spent $L's to win a bet lol) to dress that avatar as a child. It was a hideous outfit with a lot of alphas to hide the clipping, but it was a viable outfit all the same So banning a specific body which is ostensibly an adult body is silly. It all depends on the shape.
Add the fact that I have an alt on my home OS grid who has an avatar which (with deformation) is less than 3 feet tall ... he should only be about 6 to 7 inches, but you can only do so much after all, and I'm not in favor of automatic measures to classify any avatar as unacceptable.
BUT ... if I hypergridded to a grid which automatically kicked me out I'd just move on, because at the end of the day it really is up to the grid/region owner how he or she wants to run his/her own grid.
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I wrote a long response but it boiled down to a principal I hold dear: My Home, My Rules.
That's how I operate in RL, in SL, and in OS.
In my RL home, in my SL mainland plot, and in my region in OS ... the rules are what I say they are. Obviously within the constraints of the society I am embedded in. So I have to comply with RL Law, SL TOS, and the TOS that my grid owners required that I agree to.
The same, I imagine, applies to your RL home.
If, for instance, you had a rule for entering your home which I believed I could not comply with ... I would either (a) not enter it or (b) ask you to wave that rule. If you refused to wave the rule I would leave.
Because it would not matter WHY I felt I couldn't comply with that rule ... perhaps it might conflict with my religion or my principals, but it's YOUR home and YOU get to set the rules. The minute we insist on overriding that it stops being your home.
If I have a rule in my region (still locked down after 6 years of construction ... when I build, I build BIG :) that says "Do not do X" then you either obey the rule, convince me to wave it in your case, or you get out. I don't have to rationalise or justify it ... because it's MY home.
That basically addresses everything in your reply.
Now I'll address some finer points: In SL I use the HG body. Nobody would suggest that body is infantile. But, for a bet, I made a barely-pubescent avatar using that body. And I found sufficient free items (because I wasn't going to spent $L's to win a bet lol) to dress that avatar as a child. It was a hideous outfit with a lot of alphas to hide the clipping, but it was a viable outfit all the same So banning a specific body which is ostensibly an adult body is silly. It all depends on the shape.
Add the fact that I have an alt on my home OS grid who has an avatar which (with deformation) is less than 3 feet tall ... he should only be about 6 to 7 inches, but you can only do so much after all, and I'm not in favor of automatic measures to classify any avatar as unacceptable.
BUT ... if I hypergridded to a grid which automatically kicked me out I'd just move on, because at the end of the day it really is up to the grid/region owner how he or she wants to run his/her own grid.
You asked for explanations. You explicitly stated that your questions are not rhetorical.
I gave you explanations.
But apparently, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.
Not everything in my comment is hypothetical. This, for example, is reality:
"Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is."
I could give you names and UUIDs from my home grid, but I won't do that in public. Granted, they mostly hardly ever teleport or teleported, but I myself personally witnessed one of them being kicked and banned from Stark for giving the impression of being a child avatar although she was actually anything but.
This guy...
"I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway."
...is reality, too. Again, I could give you a name and a UUID, but again, not in public.
"Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated."
This was literally me during my first few weeks in OpenSim. And not only me as you can tell whenever you're at a motto party or at a heavily themed event in a heavily themed location, and in the middle of an event, people teleport in in what has to be their typical casual outfits. They just went where there are a lot of avatars to meet.
And in this particular case, these people won't know anything about any rules being in place until they're being told WHILE THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. The OSW beacon doesn't tell you anything about a sim, only the name, Adult rating or not and how many avatars are there, that's all. It does NOT tell you about what kind of sim it is, what's its theme, what rules are in place. It could be a medieval hard roleplay sim, it could be an Old West hard roleplay sim, it could be a BTB Gor hard roleplay sim, but if you don't know OpenSimWorld-the-website, you wouldn't know that before you actually go there. And if you do learn about the rules, you do so while having broken them already. Unless someone kicks you first.
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I gave you explanations.
But apparently, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.
Not everything in my comment is hypothetical. This, for example, is reality:
"Well, first of all, there are those who don't care for dress codes. Like, at all. They dress like they always dress, and they seem to completely ignore their surroundings. Same reason why they insist in walking around snow-covered Christmas sims in skimpy micro-minidresses and 6" platform sandals with 12" spike heels or on subtropical beaches clad in black biker leather from head to toe like a one-percenter. Anything to not reduce their sexiness or badassitude.
Or it's simply their style which is the more likely, the more unusual it is."
I could give you names and UUIDs from my home grid, but I won't do that in public. Granted, they mostly hardly ever teleport or teleported, but I myself personally witnessed one of them being kicked and banned from Stark for giving the impression of being a child avatar although she was actually anything but.
This guy...
"I also know someone who is too much of an anarchist to let anyone tell him what to wear. That is, even he puts on a tuxedo when appropriate. And he doesn't Hypergrid often anyway."
...is reality, too. Again, I could give you a name and a UUID, but again, not in public.
"Then there are those who don't know that there is a dress code in the first place. Some go to OSW and look up which sims are busy without checking a) what that sim is and b) what's happening there. Others don't know the OSW website and believe the OSW beacons are nothing more than nifty Hypergrid teleporters. They seek out the busiest sim and teleport there to meet people. But the beacon doesn't tell them anything about on-going events either, not even about the sims except for whether they're Adult-rated."
This was literally me during my first few weeks in OpenSim. And not only me as you can tell whenever you're at a motto party or at a heavily themed event in a heavily themed location, and in the middle of an event, people teleport in in what has to be their typical casual outfits. They just went where there are a lot of avatars to meet.
And in this particular case, these people won't know anything about any rules being in place until they're being told WHILE THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. The OSW beacon doesn't tell you anything about a sim, only the name, Adult rating or not and how many avatars are there, that's all. It does NOT tell you about what kind of sim it is, what's its theme, what rules are in place. It could be a medieval hard roleplay sim, it could be an Old West hard roleplay sim, it could be a BTB Gor hard roleplay sim, but if you don't know OpenSimWorld-the-website, you wouldn't know that before you actually go there. And if you do learn about the rules, you do so while having broken them already. Unless someone kicks you first.
You didn't answer the question I asked.
You talk about not knowing the rules, and that's fair enough. When you arrive, you should be informed of the rules one way or another. A sign at the landing zone. A notecard. Or someone telling you. Then, a reasonable grid and owner would give you a chance to correct whatever the problem is. My landing zone (if we ever get the region finished lol) is in a cave. There will be a big sign explaining the rules and you basically have to walk through it to get out of the cave. There will also be a notecard giver which covers both English and Spanish, those being the two languages used on the grid wherein I make my home. I think that's a reasonable approach.
For example ... I recently tried to go to a shop in SL. You know the deal, you find something on the MP and follow the "see this item in second life". I landed in the middle of something that was NOT a shop. I didn't even look around, I just went to my web browser ... got the creators name, and searched for it in case she had a new location for her shop. While I was doing that I got a very polite DM "I'm sorry, you may not have realised that you're in a gay club and women aren't permitted." I immediately hit home, and then apologised and explained how I came to be there and why I hadn't realised I was in a gay club. That's reasonable. I try to always assume the best motive when someone screws up and give them a chance to correct it, as did the gay guy at that club.
What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?
Frankly if I were your little sister, and some said "CHILD AVATAR!!!" and started frothing at the mouth ... I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough.
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You talk about not knowing the rules, and that's fair enough. When you arrive, you should be informed of the rules one way or another. A sign at the landing zone. A notecard. Or someone telling you. Then, a reasonable grid and owner would give you a chance to correct whatever the problem is. My landing zone (if we ever get the region finished lol) is in a cave. There will be a big sign explaining the rules and you basically have to walk through it to get out of the cave. There will also be a notecard giver which covers both English and Spanish, those being the two languages used on the grid wherein I make my home. I think that's a reasonable approach.
For example ... I recently tried to go to a shop in SL. You know the deal, you find something on the MP and follow the "see this item in second life". I landed in the middle of something that was NOT a shop. I didn't even look around, I just went to my web browser ... got the creators name, and searched for it in case she had a new location for her shop. While I was doing that I got a very polite DM "I'm sorry, you may not have realised that you're in a gay club and women aren't permitted." I immediately hit home, and then apologised and explained how I came to be there and why I hadn't realised I was in a gay club. That's reasonable. I try to always assume the best motive when someone screws up and give them a chance to correct it, as did the gay guy at that club.
What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?
Frankly if I were your little sister, and some said "CHILD AVATAR!!!" and started frothing at the mouth ... I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough.
"What I'm addressing, and I believe it's implicit in my post, is why you would WANT to go to a grid/region where the owner has (somehow) communicated the rules and in his/her opinion you don't comply with them?"
Again: One reason is because you always dress the same, plus, you ABSOLUTELY DESPISE dress codes with a BURNING PASSION, and thus, you deliberately, intentionally break them by going as you are.
Again: Reality. Could give you a name and a UUID.
Not to mention those who think that other people's rules generally don't apply to them, who think they can overrule anyone anywhere, or who try to weasel themselves around any rule out there by finding and exploiting loopholes or, if necessary, making them up out of thin air. Bonus points if they call you a fascist for enforcing your rules by banning them.
Can't give you a UUID because I refuse to go where I could find it, but I could tell you three names for the same guy.
A variant I haven't mentioned yet: The dress code is only communicated in the sim owner's native language because the entire target audience of the sim speaks the sim owner's native language. But that language is German or Italian or Brazilian Portuguese. In fact, the sim owner only speaks and understands that one language.
Sure, if you have common sense, you go find an online translator that can also identify the language if you can't.
But some treat anything communicated to them in a language other than their native tongue as not communicated to them at all. So they keep coming back because they simply don't KNOW that this foreign gibberish they were exposed to was rules, much less that and how they're breaking these rules right now. And they keep coming back until the sim owner either bans them or communicates the rules to them in their language, and I don't mean Googlish because some ignore that, too.
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Again: One reason is because you always dress the same, plus, you ABSOLUTELY DESPISE dress codes with a BURNING PASSION, and thus, you deliberately, intentionally break them by going as you are.
Again: Reality. Could give you a name and a UUID.
Not to mention those who think that other people's rules generally don't apply to them, who think they can overrule anyone anywhere, or who try to weasel themselves around any rule out there by finding and exploiting loopholes or, if necessary, making them up out of thin air. Bonus points if they call you a fascist for enforcing your rules by banning them.
Can't give you a UUID because I refuse to go where I could find it, but I could tell you three names for the same guy.
A variant I haven't mentioned yet: The dress code is only communicated in the sim owner's native language because the entire target audience of the sim speaks the sim owner's native language. But that language is German or Italian or Brazilian Portuguese. In fact, the sim owner only speaks and understands that one language.
Sure, if you have common sense, you go find an online translator that can also identify the language if you can't.
But some treat anything communicated to them in a language other than their native tongue as not communicated to them at all. So they keep coming back because they simply don't KNOW that this foreign gibberish they were exposed to was rules, much less that and how they're breaking these rules right now. And they keep coming back until the sim owner either bans them or communicates the rules to them in their language, and I don't mean Googlish because some ignore that, too.
Ok - I see where we're not communicating too effectively.
Yes - I agree that there are people who, for whatever reason, feel that they are entitled to break the rules. Said people deserve a kick and a ban once the rules are explained and they don't comply.
A person who doesn't make an effort to understand the rules is history as well. The grid owner is under no onus to jump through hoops to get the rules across. I have left grids because I simply couldn't make sense of the rules I was offered.
But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar.
Sure ... your post lays out "this is not a child so stop overreacting", and I see the value in trying to communicate that with people. But having done so, many people aren't going to get it, at which point why not just write them (and their grids) off?
It would be different if it were an RL connected issue. So a grid which prohibited avatars based on their skin color would be an issue that required persistent addressing, because that connects to RL racism.
But this is a purely VR issue because except in a vanishingly small number of cases it's unlikely that anyone in RL is going to be confused with a prepubescent child.
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Yes - I agree that there are people who, for whatever reason, feel that they are entitled to break the rules. Said people deserve a kick and a ban once the rules are explained and they don't comply.
A person who doesn't make an effort to understand the rules is history as well. The grid owner is under no onus to jump through hoops to get the rules across. I have left grids because I simply couldn't make sense of the rules I was offered.
But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar.
Sure ... your post lays out "this is not a child so stop overreacting", and I see the value in trying to communicate that with people. But having done so, many people aren't going to get it, at which point why not just write them (and their grids) off?
It would be different if it were an RL connected issue. So a grid which prohibited avatars based on their skin color would be an issue that required persistent addressing, because that connects to RL racism.
But this is a purely VR issue because except in a vanishingly small number of cases it's unlikely that anyone in RL is going to be confused with a prepubescent child.
"But I'm coming at it from a different point of view. What I'm trying to get at is why Juno would WANT to be on a grid where the owner was a small minded dweeb who immediately started frothing at the mouth because he sees what he thinks is a child avatar."
For one, I wasn't originally talking about ENTIRE GRIDS while you were ONLY ever talking about entire grids.
It isn't only grid owners who make rules and kick and ban avatars. In fact, grid owners rather have the decency to publish their rules somewhere.
I was talking about SIMS whose owners make their own rules just for that sim in addition to the grid rules.
First of all, rules specific to one sim or a few sims under the same owner have much more of a tendency to only exist in the head of the owner and never be communicated to anyone, much less written down and published somewhere that's publicly accessible. Avatars are being kicked and banned for breaking rules they don't even know exist all the time.
In fact, they actually may or may not be definite rules.
The sim owner may actually have a catalogue of definite underage avatar attributes in their head and check avatars for these attributes. Too short, check, kid, kick & ban. Petite, check, kid, kick & ban. Too light skin, check, kid, kick & ban. Twin pigtails, check, kid, kick & ban.
But: The sim owner may just as well only kick and ban avatars on the ground of FEELING like that's an underage avatar. The criteria for that may be the exact same as above and as in my original post. But they aren't defined and listed individually in the sim owner's mind. It's just that too short size and/or too light skin and/or too small boobs and/or too bright clothes and/or not sexy enough clothes make an avatar FEEL underage.
You can actually often read that on signs at sim landings: "We may kick and ban any avatar which we consider looking underage." But "looking underage" is not defined anywhere. There is NO list of defined criteria for what makes an avatar look underage.
If there was such a list, don't you think they'd rattle it down on the very same sign to make clear what consitutes an underage avatar and what doesn't? Much like the OSgrid plazas explicitly rattle down all the things they don't tolerate on avatars, one by one, on big in-world signs?
But they don't. Because it isn't a catalogue of defined criteria. It's gut feelings. Based on largely the same criteria as above, but never defined, not judged by the mind checking off a list, but judged by the guts that feel like it's a child avatar.
So instead, the sign may read something like, "It's up to us to decide what makes an avatar look underage. No questioning our decision."
If go you PRESSURE the grid owners to spit out what they think makes an avatar look underage, they MAY list up stuff like that above. After spending a while thinking about what they feel makes an avatar look underage, based on what avatars looked like that they've kicked and banned in the recent past. But not before then.
Grid owners are more harmless for another reason: They can't patrol and police the whole grid with 359 sims all the time. Even if they do have as vague as draconian rules, which grid owners don't have on the same level as sim owners, it's fairly easy to sneak past them.
A sim owner who has only got one sim, maybe even only one party sim that's only busy for a few hours per day, one or a few days per week, can easily police the whole sim and over 90% of the activity on that sim. Because it's only that one sim.
And avatars are much more often being kicked and banned by sim owners from party sims during parties and from RP sims during RP sessions than from freebie sims or landscape sims.
Besides, it is not specifically about Juno. It has never been specifically about Juno.
But Juno is a great example because she tends to have so much on her that may constitute an underage avatar. Either because it's on some sim owner's defined checklist of underage avatar attributes. Or because it triggers some sim owner's gut feelings that this avatar kinda sorta looks underage.
It's about Juno as much as it's about ALL avatars that have enough on them that Juno has, too. They're all just the same in danger of being wrongly kicked and banned for allegedly being underage. Not just Juno. In fact, many are even MORE in danger than Juno because Juno at least has a sizable pair of boobs which Athena Petite avatars don't have.
Why I've used Juno then? Well, I had the choice. Either use Juno as an example. Or comb the Hypergrid and search for bits and pieces to put together another female avatar with only the specific purpose of making one picture and showing demonstrating alleged child avatar criteria. Enormous effort to build something that's readily available already.
It was easier and more convenient to use Juno. Simple as that.
And it's more relatable if it's an avatar that actually walks around out there, goes shopping, goes partying, than if it's an avatar that was cobbled together for this one picture, never seen before and never to be seen again.
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For one, I wasn't originally talking about ENTIRE GRIDS while you were ONLY ever talking about entire grids.
It isn't only grid owners who make rules and kick and ban avatars. In fact, grid owners rather have the decency to publish their rules somewhere.
I was talking about SIMS whose owners make their own rules just for that sim in addition to the grid rules.
First of all, rules specific to one sim or a few sims under the same owner have much more of a tendency to only exist in the head of the owner and never be communicated to anyone, much less written down and published somewhere that's publicly accessible. Avatars are being kicked and banned for breaking rules they don't even know exist all the time.
In fact, they actually may or may not be definite rules.
The sim owner may actually have a catalogue of definite underage avatar attributes in their head and check avatars for these attributes. Too short, check, kid, kick & ban. Petite, check, kid, kick & ban. Too light skin, check, kid, kick & ban. Twin pigtails, check, kid, kick & ban.
But: The sim owner may just as well only kick and ban avatars on the ground of FEELING like that's an underage avatar. The criteria for that may be the exact same as above and as in my original post. But they aren't defined and listed individually in the sim owner's mind. It's just that too short size and/or too light skin and/or too small boobs and/or too bright clothes and/or not sexy enough clothes make an avatar FEEL underage.
You can actually often read that on signs at sim landings: "We may kick and ban any avatar which we consider looking underage." But "looking underage" is not defined anywhere. There is NO list of defined criteria for what makes an avatar look underage.
If there was such a list, don't you think they'd rattle it down on the very same sign to make clear what consitutes an underage avatar and what doesn't? Much like the OSgrid plazas explicitly rattle down all the things they don't tolerate on avatars, one by one, on big in-world signs?
But they don't. Because it isn't a catalogue of defined criteria. It's gut feelings. Based on largely the same criteria as above, but never defined, not judged by the mind checking off a list, but judged by the guts that feel like it's a child avatar.
So instead, the sign may read something like, "It's up to us to decide what makes an avatar look underage. No questioning our decision."
If go you PRESSURE the grid owners to spit out what they think makes an avatar look underage, they MAY list up stuff like that above. After spending a while thinking about what they feel makes an avatar look underage, based on what avatars looked like that they've kicked and banned in the recent past. But not before then.
Grid owners are more harmless for another reason: They can't patrol and police the whole grid with 359 sims all the time. Even if they do have as vague as draconian rules, which grid owners don't have on the same level as sim owners, it's fairly easy to sneak past them.
A sim owner who has only got one sim, maybe even only one party sim that's only busy for a few hours per day, one or a few days per week, can easily police the whole sim and over 90% of the activity on that sim. Because it's only that one sim.
And avatars are much more often being kicked and banned by sim owners from party sims during parties and from RP sims during RP sessions than from freebie sims or landscape sims.
Besides, it is not specifically about Juno. It has never been specifically about Juno.
But Juno is a great example because she tends to have so much on her that may constitute an underage avatar. Either because it's on some sim owner's defined checklist of underage avatar attributes. Or because it triggers some sim owner's gut feelings that this avatar kinda sorta looks underage.
It's about Juno as much as it's about ALL avatars that have enough on them that Juno has, too. They're all just the same in danger of being wrongly kicked and banned for allegedly being underage. Not just Juno. In fact, many are even MORE in danger than Juno because Juno at least has a sizable pair of boobs which Athena Petite avatars don't have.
Why I've used Juno then? Well, I had the choice. Either use Juno as an example. Or comb the Hypergrid and search for bits and pieces to put together another female avatar with only the specific purpose of making one picture and showing demonstrating alleged child avatar criteria. Enormous effort to build something that's readily available already.
It was easier and more convenient to use Juno. Simple as that.
And it's more relatable if it's an avatar that actually walks around out there, goes shopping, goes partying, than if it's an avatar that was cobbled together for this one picture, never seen before and never to be seen again.
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Can't tell you about the rest, also because I neither know nor care where you can get which male clothes for which SL body.
But a hard hat can be found at Wright Plaza, the good old official freebie sim on OSgrid. Can't tell you at which coordinates, though. Just spend some time there and look through the shops, maybe you'll find other useful items such as sawhorses.
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But a hard hat can be found at Wright Plaza, the good old official freebie sim on OSgrid. Can't tell you at which coordinates, though. Just spend some time there and look through the shops, maybe you'll find other useful items such as sawhorses.
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This whole topic would be a great deal easier to discuss if sim owners who label avatars potentially or actually underage by their looks laid their criteria for an underage look open, and if they did so in the descriptions of their sims right here in OSW.
If they consider all avatars under 6' underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider all Athena Petite avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars with twin pigtails underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars wearing too bright colours underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider too light-skinned avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars covering up too much underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they discover new criteria for an underage look which they didn't even know exist until then, e.g. lips like in the above image as opposed to the big full lips that come with literally every last shape in every last female mesh head, then they should update their descriptions and explicitly say that this is not tolerated because it makes an avatar look like a kid.
Then and only then do we have rock-solid proof from sim owners what makes an avatar look underage. Then and only then can we discuss it without claiming that no avatar that doesn't wear a kiddie body will ever be considered underage.
"You look too young" without explaining WHAT EXACTLY makes an avatar look too young is too vague.
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If they consider all avatars under 6' underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider all Athena Petite avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars with twin pigtails underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars wearing too bright colours underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider too light-skinned avatars underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they consider avatars covering up too much underage, they should explicitly say so.
If they discover new criteria for an underage look which they didn't even know exist until then, e.g. lips like in the above image as opposed to the big full lips that come with literally every last shape in every last female mesh head, then they should update their descriptions and explicitly say that this is not tolerated because it makes an avatar look like a kid.
Then and only then do we have rock-solid proof from sim owners what makes an avatar look underage. Then and only then can we discuss it without claiming that no avatar that doesn't wear a kiddie body will ever be considered underage.
"You look too young" without explaining WHAT EXACTLY makes an avatar look too young is too vague.
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"Only recently i was at Lliba and was asked to leave or change my appearance because I looked "too young". My avi AND me are 5'6 and I had on an athena petite body and an outfit very similar to the image above. Long sleeves, long pants. Not even any pink clothing. I thought it was crazy, but I agreed to leave."
This. This so very much.
Many people claim that the only thing that could flag an avatar underage is an automated childgate configured to a minimum of 180cm or 6'. They claim that avatars would never be considered underage just by their looks. Until someone writes that exactly this has happened to their own avatar.
Even then, some either don't believe it, or they think their avatar, while not fully conforming to OpenSim standards, is safe. Until it surprisingly, unexpectedly happens to their very own avatar.
Those who still keep denying it, and I guess they're still the vast majority here, have female avatars that fully conform to the "professional San Fernando Valley porn star meets Kardashian family member, and the whole Hypergrid is Malibu or Ibiza in summer always and everywhere" standard. I guess they're staring at the above image in disbelief that it's even possible to build such an avatar, much less that someone has actually done it and, worse yet, sticks with it as a daily driver.
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This. This so very much.
Many people claim that the only thing that could flag an avatar underage is an automated childgate configured to a minimum of 180cm or 6'. They claim that avatars would never be considered underage just by their looks. Until someone writes that exactly this has happened to their own avatar.
Even then, some either don't believe it, or they think their avatar, while not fully conforming to OpenSim standards, is safe. Until it surprisingly, unexpectedly happens to their very own avatar.
Those who still keep denying it, and I guess they're still the vast majority here, have female avatars that fully conform to the "professional San Fernando Valley porn star meets Kardashian family member, and the whole Hypergrid is Malibu or Ibiza in summer always and everywhere" standard. I guess they're staring at the above image in disbelief that it's even possible to build such an avatar, much less that someone has actually done it and, worse yet, sticks with it as a daily driver.
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PBR has me wondering.
On the one hand, Second Life has the best graphics of all virtual worlds already now, also due to how the resident creators go completely overboard with textures and meshes. Both the official viewer and the most popular viewer are based on way outdated OpenGL versions because Second Life itself doesn't support anything newer. Enough avatars within the FOV, and even an overclocked RTX 4090Ti won't be able to keep the world from turning into a slideshow.
Second Life doesn't even appeal to gamers with powerful machines, and I think a rather substantial number of users is still on the same 32-bit office-level machines they got themselves over a decade and a half ago because they haven't been able to afford anything newer ever since.
Not to mention that they're going mobile and, I think, VR as well. Remember that VR requires a constant 60fps on mobile, battery-powered hardware.
At the same time, they're introducing both PBR and 2K textures in what looks like an attempt at having the only virtual world whose graphics outclass Cyberpunk 2077. And Cyberpunk is notorious for barely running smoothly on absolute highest-end gaming machines while having a state-of-the-art graphics engine underneath. Second Life wants to pull this off on phones and headsets while using over 20-year-old OpenGL.
I guess we all know what 2K textures mean. They won't mean that creators will stitch four of their many 1K textures together to have fewer textures overall and more simple meshes. No, they'll rather replace each 1K texture with a 2K texture because so does the competition. Yes, on buttons on clothes. And when that stuff is ripped and taken over to OpenSim, the importers probably can't be bothered to scale the textures down.
When PBR is finalised, it might have a slow start because it'll require expensive extra software and more work. But once one big brand starts, or a small brand becomes big by having PBR before the established big brands, all big brands will have to follow suit on all their products, also because they say that PBR and non-PBR objects look terrible next to each other.
I'm not sure how quickly PBR will spread in OpenSim. If it starts on legal content made in and for OpenSim, nobody will know and care because that content won't be available on any of the two or three super-popular freebie sims.
As for SL content, until now, practically none of the importers could even be bothered to re-add normal maps or specular maps. That's why almost everything in OpenSim has flat and dull surfaces. So I wouldn't be so certain that they suddenly start adding normal maps, specular maps and PBR maps.
That is, until either a new freebie sim comes up or an old freebie sim re-emerges with PBR content. Exclusive and no-transfer, of course. Then PBR will become what EvoX is already now: a seemingly absolute necessity for the content it concerns. Everyone will have to offer PBR content. More recent freebie stores might start rushing to hang up PBR content, maybe even replace non-PBR content with PBR content. And just like EvoX now and BoM before EvoX, many won't know what it actually means, but it's probably the newest, hottest must-have now.
Those who actually turn PBR on will find that some sims will look rather jarring: Some content supports PBR, some SL mesh content right next to it is of the kind that has even got shadows painted on to bring near-photo-realistic graphics to those who use SL on potatoes, and maybe there are even good old prim buildings on the same sim. This will also be a sure-fire way to tell that the sim builder has PBR off, just like you can tell sims whose builders have their viewers permanently switched to midday or whose builders always fly and never walk on their own sims.
Oh, by the way, I expect PBR to have one good side-effect: Baked-on shadows that clash with generated shadows will finally be a thing of the past, at least on new content.
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On the one hand, Second Life has the best graphics of all virtual worlds already now, also due to how the resident creators go completely overboard with textures and meshes. Both the official viewer and the most popular viewer are based on way outdated OpenGL versions because Second Life itself doesn't support anything newer. Enough avatars within the FOV, and even an overclocked RTX 4090Ti won't be able to keep the world from turning into a slideshow.
Second Life doesn't even appeal to gamers with powerful machines, and I think a rather substantial number of users is still on the same 32-bit office-level machines they got themselves over a decade and a half ago because they haven't been able to afford anything newer ever since.
Not to mention that they're going mobile and, I think, VR as well. Remember that VR requires a constant 60fps on mobile, battery-powered hardware.
At the same time, they're introducing both PBR and 2K textures in what looks like an attempt at having the only virtual world whose graphics outclass Cyberpunk 2077. And Cyberpunk is notorious for barely running smoothly on absolute highest-end gaming machines while having a state-of-the-art graphics engine underneath. Second Life wants to pull this off on phones and headsets while using over 20-year-old OpenGL.
I guess we all know what 2K textures mean. They won't mean that creators will stitch four of their many 1K textures together to have fewer textures overall and more simple meshes. No, they'll rather replace each 1K texture with a 2K texture because so does the competition. Yes, on buttons on clothes. And when that stuff is ripped and taken over to OpenSim, the importers probably can't be bothered to scale the textures down.
When PBR is finalised, it might have a slow start because it'll require expensive extra software and more work. But once one big brand starts, or a small brand becomes big by having PBR before the established big brands, all big brands will have to follow suit on all their products, also because they say that PBR and non-PBR objects look terrible next to each other.
I'm not sure how quickly PBR will spread in OpenSim. If it starts on legal content made in and for OpenSim, nobody will know and care because that content won't be available on any of the two or three super-popular freebie sims.
As for SL content, until now, practically none of the importers could even be bothered to re-add normal maps or specular maps. That's why almost everything in OpenSim has flat and dull surfaces. So I wouldn't be so certain that they suddenly start adding normal maps, specular maps and PBR maps.
That is, until either a new freebie sim comes up or an old freebie sim re-emerges with PBR content. Exclusive and no-transfer, of course. Then PBR will become what EvoX is already now: a seemingly absolute necessity for the content it concerns. Everyone will have to offer PBR content. More recent freebie stores might start rushing to hang up PBR content, maybe even replace non-PBR content with PBR content. And just like EvoX now and BoM before EvoX, many won't know what it actually means, but it's probably the newest, hottest must-have now.
Those who actually turn PBR on will find that some sims will look rather jarring: Some content supports PBR, some SL mesh content right next to it is of the kind that has even got shadows painted on to bring near-photo-realistic graphics to those who use SL on potatoes, and maybe there are even good old prim buildings on the same sim. This will also be a sure-fire way to tell that the sim builder has PBR off, just like you can tell sims whose builders have their viewers permanently switched to midday or whose builders always fly and never walk on their own sims.
Oh, by the way, I expect PBR to have one good side-effect: Baked-on shadows that clash with generated shadows will finally be a thing of the past, at least on new content.
Thank you for your comment Jupiter. I can't claim to understand PBR but I did wonder how the ancient and by now creaking OpenGL would cope with this development. It's quite paradoxical that the last people to spend any money on OpenGL was Linden Labs, some 20 years ago, and then they subsequently fired all those developers who have now moved on to other things, taking their knowledge with them. OpenGL is long overdue for updating, and LL should really invest in developing OpenGL to be fit for the next 20 years, except they no longer have the expertise, or indeed anyone who knows enough about how the current OpenGL works.
I'd be very surprised to discover anyone still using a 32 bit machine, even the vast majority of Linux users have made the change to 64 bit, and though there are still some distros available for 32 it, they are becoming fewer every day. But I'm sure that there are plenty who access virtual world environments on the laptop they bought from the middle aisle in Lidl as a special purchase one shopping day.
I've always found baked on shadows a bit of a fraud, though I can see their utility in a world without computer generated shadows, but I've switched on shadows as long as I've been in virtual worlds. I also use both normal and specular maps on my builds, not always successfully, but I do like their effect. I'm also not averse to building with prims. I like mesh, but I'm not always convinced of its superiority over prim builds in all use case scenarios - sometimes it seems a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
I still don't understand what all the fuss is about with EvoX: it seems to me to have something of the element of the Emperor's New Clothes, or proprietary lock-in as per some computer software. In either case, a little redundant in Opensim. BoM to me is just a nice way to be able to use all that bloody awful system clothing from circa 2007, though it is great for when changing skins, as it makes it far less of a hassle than was the case with pre BoM avatars. What really strikes me as a little weird are those traditionalists who still wander the metaverse with a system avatar, I can't blame them for not going for the black market imports, but surely the existence of Ruth & Roth 2.0 offer a way to look better in a way that is actually optimised to the limitations of OpenGL than the usual mesh avatar offerings.
PBR with just be overkill, but I have no doubt you're right, it will soon be a must have, even in Opensim.
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I'd be very surprised to discover anyone still using a 32 bit machine, even the vast majority of Linux users have made the change to 64 bit, and though there are still some distros available for 32 it, they are becoming fewer every day. But I'm sure that there are plenty who access virtual world environments on the laptop they bought from the middle aisle in Lidl as a special purchase one shopping day.
I've always found baked on shadows a bit of a fraud, though I can see their utility in a world without computer generated shadows, but I've switched on shadows as long as I've been in virtual worlds. I also use both normal and specular maps on my builds, not always successfully, but I do like their effect. I'm also not averse to building with prims. I like mesh, but I'm not always convinced of its superiority over prim builds in all use case scenarios - sometimes it seems a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
I still don't understand what all the fuss is about with EvoX: it seems to me to have something of the element of the Emperor's New Clothes, or proprietary lock-in as per some computer software. In either case, a little redundant in Opensim. BoM to me is just a nice way to be able to use all that bloody awful system clothing from circa 2007, though it is great for when changing skins, as it makes it far less of a hassle than was the case with pre BoM avatars. What really strikes me as a little weird are those traditionalists who still wander the metaverse with a system avatar, I can't blame them for not going for the black market imports, but surely the existence of Ruth & Roth 2.0 offer a way to look better in a way that is actually optimised to the limitations of OpenGL than the usual mesh avatar offerings.
PBR with just be overkill, but I have no doubt you're right, it will soon be a must have, even in Opensim.
Many OpenSim users actually still don't know what BoM even is. But "BoM" was slapped on all those new SL bodies and SL heads that showed up in the Hypergrid in the early 2020s, so it was simply considered a code for "this is the new hotness now, and everything that doesn't have it on itself is old and busted".
Hardly anyone actually fleshes BoM out. The new old way of putting on skins and make-up and tattoos is either seen as a nuisance but one that you have to put up with, or people got themselves an Athena 6 and a Catwa BoM head and use skin appliers and tattoo appliers on them.
Only very very few BoM avatars actually wear layer clothes. That's mostly because the concept of layer clothes has been declared obsolete in 2015, and absolutely everything, no matter how skin-tight, absolutely has had to be mesh ever since, no exception. Since Athena 6, there has hardly been any layer clothing imported from SL. One "Free Bakes on Mesh" box with layer lingerie and layer stockings. One third-party box with mesh lingerie plus layer stockings. That's all. And nobody ever wears either. One of the reasons why nobody had come up with the idea to steal layer tights from SL; the other reason is because maybe half a dozen avatars all over the Hypergrid would wear tights in the first place.
What layer clothes have been around before the arrival of Athena 6 is being snubbed even more. People only want the newest, the best, the hottest stuff. And those old layer clothes aren't just old technology, they're "seriously old crap" that nobody would want to be caught wearing.
The concept of alpha masks in combination with BoM is completely alien here. First of all, "everybody knows" that alpha masks don't work on mesh bodies. That's what they've been learning since 2015.
Then, even those who may suspect that BoM might include alpha mask support for mesh bodies "learn" that this is allegedly not the case. And that's only because they try it with Athena 6 or Adonis 4, and the alpha modes on these bodies are completely botched, so alpha masks actually do not work on them specifically. At the same time, alpha masks work on Ruth2 v4 and Roth2 v2 out perfectly of the box, but nobody uses these bodies, so nobody knows.
Lastly, the general attitude here is that alpha cuts are a more advanced technology and therefore the successor of alpha masks, having fully superseded alpha masks and rendered alpha masks obsolete. Wanting to use alpha masks on a BoM mesh body from the 2020s is akin to wanting to wear Linda Kellie layer clothes on a BoM mesh body from 2020s. Never mind that Ruth2 v4 is actually bundled with Linda Kellie underwear. And never mind that mesh bodies in SL have quickly become available without tiny alpha cuts and with full alpha mask support instead because, after all, alpha cuts are nothing but an ugly and performance-hogging hack for alpha-ing because alpha masks didn't work on pre-BoM mesh bodies.
What EvoX is and means, I think many OpenSim users don't know that either. But it's being aggressively marketed, and it's on all the newest and hottest mesh heads and skins. So it has to be the new hotness that you absolutely have to have. If EvoX is juxtaposed with BoM by having EvoX and BoM heads next to each other on the same store wall, this also creates the impression that EvoX is the new hotness to BoM's old and busted because BoM has been around for longer, and EvoX "clearly isn't" BoM.
So you absolutely have to have EvoX nowadays. Outfitting a new avatar with something that isn't the newest, hottest shit is generally understood as cluelessness about what the newest, hottest shit is. Sometimes, even refusing to upgrade your avatar to the newest, hottest shit is.
The next big thing will be something like EvoX 2K. Same as EvoX, but with 2K textures.
Fortunately, classic avatar layers, skins included, only support diffuse maps, but no bump maps, no specular maps and definitely no PBR maps. So unless bump maps, specular maps and PBR maps are firmly applied to the body or the head, and BoM can't mess with them, BoM or EvoX can't be combined with PBR. At least it won't be possible to market PBR skins because PBR skins aren't possible.
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Hardly anyone actually fleshes BoM out. The new old way of putting on skins and make-up and tattoos is either seen as a nuisance but one that you have to put up with, or people got themselves an Athena 6 and a Catwa BoM head and use skin appliers and tattoo appliers on them.
Only very very few BoM avatars actually wear layer clothes. That's mostly because the concept of layer clothes has been declared obsolete in 2015, and absolutely everything, no matter how skin-tight, absolutely has had to be mesh ever since, no exception. Since Athena 6, there has hardly been any layer clothing imported from SL. One "Free Bakes on Mesh" box with layer lingerie and layer stockings. One third-party box with mesh lingerie plus layer stockings. That's all. And nobody ever wears either. One of the reasons why nobody had come up with the idea to steal layer tights from SL; the other reason is because maybe half a dozen avatars all over the Hypergrid would wear tights in the first place.
What layer clothes have been around before the arrival of Athena 6 is being snubbed even more. People only want the newest, the best, the hottest stuff. And those old layer clothes aren't just old technology, they're "seriously old crap" that nobody would want to be caught wearing.
The concept of alpha masks in combination with BoM is completely alien here. First of all, "everybody knows" that alpha masks don't work on mesh bodies. That's what they've been learning since 2015.
Then, even those who may suspect that BoM might include alpha mask support for mesh bodies "learn" that this is allegedly not the case. And that's only because they try it with Athena 6 or Adonis 4, and the alpha modes on these bodies are completely botched, so alpha masks actually do not work on them specifically. At the same time, alpha masks work on Ruth2 v4 and Roth2 v2 out perfectly of the box, but nobody uses these bodies, so nobody knows.
Lastly, the general attitude here is that alpha cuts are a more advanced technology and therefore the successor of alpha masks, having fully superseded alpha masks and rendered alpha masks obsolete. Wanting to use alpha masks on a BoM mesh body from the 2020s is akin to wanting to wear Linda Kellie layer clothes on a BoM mesh body from 2020s. Never mind that Ruth2 v4 is actually bundled with Linda Kellie underwear. And never mind that mesh bodies in SL have quickly become available without tiny alpha cuts and with full alpha mask support instead because, after all, alpha cuts are nothing but an ugly and performance-hogging hack for alpha-ing because alpha masks didn't work on pre-BoM mesh bodies.
What EvoX is and means, I think many OpenSim users don't know that either. But it's being aggressively marketed, and it's on all the newest and hottest mesh heads and skins. So it has to be the new hotness that you absolutely have to have. If EvoX is juxtaposed with BoM by having EvoX and BoM heads next to each other on the same store wall, this also creates the impression that EvoX is the new hotness to BoM's old and busted because BoM has been around for longer, and EvoX "clearly isn't" BoM.
So you absolutely have to have EvoX nowadays. Outfitting a new avatar with something that isn't the newest, hottest shit is generally understood as cluelessness about what the newest, hottest shit is. Sometimes, even refusing to upgrade your avatar to the newest, hottest shit is.
The next big thing will be something like EvoX 2K. Same as EvoX, but with 2K textures.
Fortunately, classic avatar layers, skins included, only support diffuse maps, but no bump maps, no specular maps and definitely no PBR maps. So unless bump maps, specular maps and PBR maps are firmly applied to the body or the head, and BoM can't mess with them, BoM or EvoX can't be combined with PBR. At least it won't be possible to market PBR skins because PBR skins aren't possible.
Hardware isn't the only reason why people run the 32bit viewer. I still run a 32 SL viewer for the simple reason that I want to keep my OS and SL installations completely separate, and there only way I can reasonably achieve that is to run 32 bit for SL, and 64 bit for OS. That won't be a problem after my next hardware upgrade and I ditch windows altogether.
As for EvoX ... I fail to see the appeal. Perhaps it's just my old eyes, but the EvoX textures don't look good enough to me to warrant departing from the 'standard' skin. And, of course, I find it incredibly amusing that the high tech EvoX heads seem to use exactly the same skin layout that heads use in DAZ3D.
I use a system avatar quite frequently when I'm HGing all over the place. It rezzes faster, no matter what grid I land on, and being old school I attract less attention :)
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As for EvoX ... I fail to see the appeal. Perhaps it's just my old eyes, but the EvoX textures don't look good enough to me to warrant departing from the 'standard' skin. And, of course, I find it incredibly amusing that the high tech EvoX heads seem to use exactly the same skin layout that heads use in DAZ3D.
I use a system avatar quite frequently when I'm HGing all over the place. It rezzes faster, no matter what grid I land on, and being old school I attract less attention :)
The Linden Lab devs have been talking about moving to Vulkan in the last few years. That should have happened well before even tackling PBR and 2k textures! Many GPUs as far back as the 900 series from Nvidia and their AMD equivalents are compatible with Vulkan. If that move happened first, then PBR and 2k textures becoming part of the SL engine would make perfect sense, and could be scaled enough to work with plenty of PC's. Of course, upgrades would be a likely necessity. I'm on a 1050 GPU/8th Gen i7 H CPU on a laptop and SL is kinda variable, depending on which sim I'm on. OS on the other hand is mostly a smoother experience for me. I do have 32 GB of DDR4 RAM so most of the time I don't experience too much texture thrashing... keeping shadows off is the usual thing to do to speed up things, along with 128m or less of draw distance.
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Well, I think that, unless they're really small, classic layer-and-prim avatars have the "privilege" of being considered old-fashioned weirdos or perpetually stuck under a rock before being considered underage.
Oh, and Juno's outfits that are considered granny looks usually don't include socks. They rather include too long skirts in combination with nylon without visible garters because it's a pair of tights. Plus medium-height heels which therefore aren't high enough. Also, jackets that don't fall into one of the usual two categories (midriff-baring short jackets, black leather biker jackets).
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Oh, and Juno's outfits that are considered granny looks usually don't include socks. They rather include too long skirts in combination with nylon without visible garters because it's a pair of tights. Plus medium-height heels which therefore aren't high enough. Also, jackets that don't fall into one of the usual two categories (midriff-baring short jackets, black leather biker jackets).
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Sim owners declaring avatars underage just by their looks can go and actually has gone further than you might imagine.
I know someone whose female avatar was kicked and banned from a sim for the combination of being under 6' (no childgate, just visual "child avatar recognition"), Athena Petite and wearing too much pink. Wearing too much pink. I'm not even kidding. And the avatar does look quite sexy otherwise.
And I think I actually recall a discussion on what makes an underage avatar. Hair style was mentioned, as was skin tone.
I mean, as long as you're a regular Athena of at least 6' with a deep tan and a long lush mane, perpetually scantily clad in what little skin-tight clothing is required and always walking on spike heels of not unter 6", you've got nothing to fear.
But deviate far enough to the wrong side (and Legacy, eBody Reborn and Decadence-HG are not the wrong side), and you might get into trouble.
Also, keep in mind that the child avatar definition that you know from the past is likely not to stay the same. Especially since that SL drama, sim owners are raising the defences. The definition will become more extreme.
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I know someone whose female avatar was kicked and banned from a sim for the combination of being under 6' (no childgate, just visual "child avatar recognition"), Athena Petite and wearing too much pink. Wearing too much pink. I'm not even kidding. And the avatar does look quite sexy otherwise.
And I think I actually recall a discussion on what makes an underage avatar. Hair style was mentioned, as was skin tone.
I mean, as long as you're a regular Athena of at least 6' with a deep tan and a long lush mane, perpetually scantily clad in what little skin-tight clothing is required and always walking on spike heels of not unter 6", you've got nothing to fear.
But deviate far enough to the wrong side (and Legacy, eBody Reborn and Decadence-HG are not the wrong side), and you might get into trouble.
Also, keep in mind that the child avatar definition that you know from the past is likely not to stay the same. Especially since that SL drama, sim owners are raising the defences. The definition will become more extreme.
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When the eBody Reborn hype started, I unironically expected Athena to be demoted to teen and Athena Petite to be declared pre-teen at best.
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"My point being: it isn't child avatars that are the problem, it's the community and it's appetite for harassment. It is that the OSW/opensim community is so completely hostile/toxic and it has such a high tolerance for harassment -combined with an unwillingness to address harassment effectively."
That's it exactly, and I keep having to tell people: OSW does not have moderation. OSW does not have "staff" in the traditional community staff sense. OSW's staff, AFAIK, is only Satyr. Satyr is only a tech admin and developer at which he admittedly excels. But he is not fit for moderation. He isn't interested in moderation either. He has stated several times that he wants us to deal with any kinds of trouble ourselves, and be it things that are clearly illegal. He has told me that he normally never bans anyone. As rarely as he's here, he never knows what's going on either, and he has never been in touch with the community. And he doesn't have time to moderate everything himself in real-time 24/7.
At the same time, he isn't even interested in establishing moderation at all. Neither does he implement moderation tools, nor does he appoint moderators, nor does he even define community rules as guides for moderation. This site has two rules for sims, both of which are frequently and blatantly broken with no repercussions whatsoever, and exactly zero rules for users.
In other words: On OSW, you can get away with everything. And I mean absolutely everything. AFAIR, OSW itself came under attack a while ago. Others would have called the authorities for investigations. Satyr simply restored the site and shrugged it off.
That's why it's so attractive to troublemakers. I dare say that not few people are only in OpenSim to cause trouble and harass others because it's so easy and with exactly zero consequences for themselves.
I mean, we, the community, can't do anything ourselves with no moderation tools to do it with. Ignoring doesn't work as has been demonstrated over and over again. The only countermeasure against troublemakers at our hands is retaliation, and that usually makes things only worse.
And I think I'm the only OSW user who has been here for several years while still only having one account.
"From where I stand, kid avatars are simply the red flag de jour; but any issue would work. This community loves them some pitchforks and torches!"
That, too. Only that most other issues lead to aggressive counter-attacks rather than attacks. I mean, it's hard to harass bot-using sim owners if there are always at least seven avatars on your own sim and always right after it has started, that number barely fluctuates up, and you claim it's regular visitor traffic. And you can't speak up against copybotting and content theft from SL if the only thing on your own avatar that's legal is the alpha'd-out system body. So you defend both tooth and nail instead with massive counter-attacks.
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That's it exactly, and I keep having to tell people: OSW does not have moderation. OSW does not have "staff" in the traditional community staff sense. OSW's staff, AFAIK, is only Satyr. Satyr is only a tech admin and developer at which he admittedly excels. But he is not fit for moderation. He isn't interested in moderation either. He has stated several times that he wants us to deal with any kinds of trouble ourselves, and be it things that are clearly illegal. He has told me that he normally never bans anyone. As rarely as he's here, he never knows what's going on either, and he has never been in touch with the community. And he doesn't have time to moderate everything himself in real-time 24/7.
At the same time, he isn't even interested in establishing moderation at all. Neither does he implement moderation tools, nor does he appoint moderators, nor does he even define community rules as guides for moderation. This site has two rules for sims, both of which are frequently and blatantly broken with no repercussions whatsoever, and exactly zero rules for users.
In other words: On OSW, you can get away with everything. And I mean absolutely everything. AFAIR, OSW itself came under attack a while ago. Others would have called the authorities for investigations. Satyr simply restored the site and shrugged it off.
That's why it's so attractive to troublemakers. I dare say that not few people are only in OpenSim to cause trouble and harass others because it's so easy and with exactly zero consequences for themselves.
I mean, we, the community, can't do anything ourselves with no moderation tools to do it with. Ignoring doesn't work as has been demonstrated over and over again. The only countermeasure against troublemakers at our hands is retaliation, and that usually makes things only worse.
And I think I'm the only OSW user who has been here for several years while still only having one account.
"From where I stand, kid avatars are simply the red flag de jour; but any issue would work. This community loves them some pitchforks and torches!"
That, too. Only that most other issues lead to aggressive counter-attacks rather than attacks. I mean, it's hard to harass bot-using sim owners if there are always at least seven avatars on your own sim and always right after it has started, that number barely fluctuates up, and you claim it's regular visitor traffic. And you can't speak up against copybotting and content theft from SL if the only thing on your own avatar that's legal is the alpha'd-out system body. So you defend both tooth and nail instead with massive counter-attacks.
"And I think I'm the only OSW user who has been here for several years while still only having one account."
Naw, I only have this "Arielle" account and it has been close to 10 years. I signed up within 12 hours of Satyr opening the site.
Like Harper says, it does seem like targeted harassment on child avatars because its been the main thrust of topics for a while now. I guess the community got tired of crying about the unlicensed content here but knowing forums and how they work in cycles about topics to complain about, I'm sure it will come back around :)
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Naw, I only have this "Arielle" account and it has been close to 10 years. I signed up within 12 hours of Satyr opening the site.
Like Harper says, it does seem like targeted harassment on child avatars because its been the main thrust of topics for a while now. I guess the community got tired of crying about the unlicensed content here but knowing forums and how they work in cycles about topics to complain about, I'm sure it will come back around :)
The solution would be to start an OSW alternative but when people do start one no one uses it -instead preferring to stay here. Several have been done, Kubwa (?) had one, unless I'm mistaken hyacinth has one at the moment, and there is also one at 8chan.moe that hasn't been updated for months and months. So whatever the reasons are for continuing to wallow in the filth here...it's a dynamic that I don't anticipate changing unless OSW shuts down or goes pay only or something.
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I hope their sysadmin hasn't rewritten the entire CLI, so at least IAR and OAR exports can still be done without having to reverse-engineer the grid software.
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Any plans for the content offered at Welcome? Like all the clothes?
Granted, what Alia Soulstar has put up was gathered together throughout the Hypergrid. A lot of mesh clothes, including all male mesh clothes, are from Klamotto and not necessarily clean, although some are. But while the male layer clothes are all standard Linda Kellie fare that can still easily be found elsewhere, the female layer clothes installed by Alia seem to have all become exclusives to 3RG Welcome meanwhile, especially the underwear and the swimsuits.
And then there are Dawn Greymyst's boxes, especially the Clutterfly mesh clothes with HUD-controlled custom textures. It'd be a pity to see them go to waste when the grid shuts down.
Yes, they aren't the newest hotness. Yes, they aren't rigged for the hottest SL mesh bodies, at least not all of them. Yes, many consider layer clothes outdated. Yes, some call for all content older than a few months to be thrown out of all shops on the Hypergrid. And yes, some still call for a total boycott of any and all content related to Linda Kellie.
But then there are those who refuse to put anything illegal on their avatars. Finding clothes and accessories that are both legal and fit sufficiently well on legal mesh bodies is detective work and often requires sheer luck.
I've seen too much old but legal and still useful content vanish for good when sims shut down, when grids shut down or when sims were rebuilt. It hurts even more if you never even had the chance to pick up the sales boxes and save them which is the case at 3RG Welcome.
So I hope that at least the clean and exclusive stuff will be saved and offered someplace else.
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Granted, what Alia Soulstar has put up was gathered together throughout the Hypergrid. A lot of mesh clothes, including all male mesh clothes, are from Klamotto and not necessarily clean, although some are. But while the male layer clothes are all standard Linda Kellie fare that can still easily be found elsewhere, the female layer clothes installed by Alia seem to have all become exclusives to 3RG Welcome meanwhile, especially the underwear and the swimsuits.
And then there are Dawn Greymyst's boxes, especially the Clutterfly mesh clothes with HUD-controlled custom textures. It'd be a pity to see them go to waste when the grid shuts down.
Yes, they aren't the newest hotness. Yes, they aren't rigged for the hottest SL mesh bodies, at least not all of them. Yes, many consider layer clothes outdated. Yes, some call for all content older than a few months to be thrown out of all shops on the Hypergrid. And yes, some still call for a total boycott of any and all content related to Linda Kellie.
But then there are those who refuse to put anything illegal on their avatars. Finding clothes and accessories that are both legal and fit sufficiently well on legal mesh bodies is detective work and often requires sheer luck.
I've seen too much old but legal and still useful content vanish for good when sims shut down, when grids shut down or when sims were rebuilt. It hurts even more if you never even had the chance to pick up the sales boxes and save them which is the case at 3RG Welcome.
So I hope that at least the clean and exclusive stuff will be saved and offered someplace else.
Like I say, I hope they get the OARs and IARs. I for one like the old classic standard avatar stuff and fitmesh. LOL I've never been the newest hotness and that's ok with me. But more than anything I hope the good folks of 3RG are able to keep their community together in some form. It is an historic grid in the OpenSim.
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Juno has all the Clutterfly clothes plus the underwear and the swimsuits, and she has god mode to "fix" the strange permission settings. But she has only got the folders with the loose items, and she'd rather not repackage everything.
And if that stuff isn't rezzed anywhere on any sim in any grid, chances are higher that it'll perish due to wonky asset servers.
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And if that stuff isn't rezzed anywhere on any sim in any grid, chances are higher that it'll perish due to wonky asset servers.
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FYI: Outworldz has loads of brick textures waiting to be used.
I haven't tested the normal maps that were probably generated from the textures yet, but they're there. A few brick textures even come with "hand-made" normal maps and specular maps.
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I haven't tested the normal maps that were probably generated from the textures yet, but they're there. A few brick textures even come with "hand-made" normal maps and specular maps.
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Do you need something to generate NPC-defining notecards from an avatar?
Valerie NatureInSim has something that can do that at ValLands. https://opensimworld.com/hop/89519
Or do you need something to automatically rez moving NPCs?
Then maybe SFposer can cover that, developed by OSW's owner, Satyr Aeon. https://opensimworld.com/library?view=44 It's basically a sit animation controller very similar to PMAC, basically something like AVsitter if you're more familiar with that. But it can go way beyond PMAC and AVsitter in its possibilites while being more lightweight than both.
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Valerie NatureInSim has something that can do that at ValLands. https://opensimworld.com/hop/89519
Or do you need something to automatically rez moving NPCs?
Then maybe SFposer can cover that, developed by OSW's owner, Satyr Aeon. https://opensimworld.com/library?view=44 It's basically a sit animation controller very similar to PMAC, basically something like AVsitter if you're more familiar with that. But it can go way beyond PMAC and AVsitter in its possibilites while being more lightweight than both.
Thank you so much :) I am learning by trial and error. I have found that I can take some of the animesh and change or add to their scripts with some thing I have in i nventory. That works OK but a bit limited. I want to be able to make NPC from Avitars and be able to have them Do different things . Say Belly dance but it is several of the animations rather than one. As I said so far it has been all trial and error. I do like the idea of being able to control them. I have a Genie bottle that I can create a copy of my Avi and rezz her but Can't do anything else' She "Breathes " but that is about it. I picked up the Action NPC thing yesterday and the NPC appearance card maker. I THOUGHT I had it all figured out but back to square 1 *sighs
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The other system I mentioned which is just a bunch of scripts from outworldz will allow you to generate the appearance from your avatar, then using the inbuilt recorder you can make it walk from where it spawns to a location then play animations or sit on objects. You can program it to say things, and change its outfit if you made more then one appearance note card.
You could make it walk into a changing room, then change into a new outfit, then walk back out and do something else.
When you have recorded a list if things for it to do, I will put the list in a note card and you can then see how the commands work, and add some more without having to rerecord the whole thing. All the commands were on the website i linked to.
in the end I found it easier to just write out the note card manually if it didn't involve making a path to walk along.
I ultimately ended up using the chat command script to listen for commands, and made a script say things to control the NPC. I made a script with a sensor to detect when an avatar was nearby and the script would say a bunch of commands to make the NPC do stuff.
NPC's are frustrating to figure out, but its quite satisfying when you finally get them to do things in a convincing manor.
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You could make it walk into a changing room, then change into a new outfit, then walk back out and do something else.
When you have recorded a list if things for it to do, I will put the list in a note card and you can then see how the commands work, and add some more without having to rerecord the whole thing. All the commands were on the website i linked to.
in the end I found it easier to just write out the note card manually if it didn't involve making a path to walk along.
I ultimately ended up using the chat command script to listen for commands, and made a script say things to control the NPC. I made a script with a sensor to detect when an avatar was nearby and the script would say a bunch of commands to make the NPC do stuff.
NPC's are frustrating to figure out, but its quite satisfying when you finally get them to do things in a convincing manor.
It is all so very interesting. I love learning new things. This that you are speaking of now sounds like what I am looking for. I need several NPC's all different But that is just my Avi changing. Different themes, Holidays and what have you.
Thank you so much :)
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Thank you so much :)
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It's even better if you see it in-world.
Oh, and it can handle a full HG Safari as its audience without breaking down.
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Oh, and it can handle a full HG Safari as its audience without breaking down.
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To quote myself from just a bit further down:
Aaack Aardvark's Arcadia Shop has a Cthulhu plushie, if that's something for you.
https://opensimworld.com/hop/86546
https://opensimworld.com/post/85835
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Aaack Aardvark's Arcadia Shop has a Cthulhu plushie, if that's something for you.
https://opensimworld.com/hop/86546
https://opensimworld.com/post/85835