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Jadwiga Abremović @Jadwiga
The body is in Canada, but the soul belongs to Yugoslavia
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" Yad-vee-gah" 30, I make stuff- Uploading most of my SL makings to here |
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This is a great discussion, but as an SL mesher I just want to correct misconceptions about the "quality" of mainstream goods being ported over here. The fact is, the quality of a heck of a lot of SL goods, particularly clothing, is merely that it fits into a contemporary fashion style.
A huge amount of SL products use a cheat with LOD levels in the uploaded to falsely seem like its 1 land impact when it should be a lot more. Sure- you can put it on your Sim in SL and have it be 1 prim, but it's still using up the amount of resources both on the server on for your visitors viewers of a much heavier object. OS still counts prims/land impact like the way SL did back in the old days. Most anything you upload on the mesh uploader to here can be one prim , as an experiment you can go and link 24 prim boxes together. You can then use the firestorm "save as collada" function, and then re upload them. Most OS grids including Dreamgrids, it will be one prim.
This brings us to the second thing about secondlife "quality ". Items, especially clothing, tend to be way way way WAY high in triangles. We in OS, due to less people lagging any one Sim, can afford to be a little more relaxed about this. But in SL it really messes things up. People think individually meshed tiny buttons that don't blur when you zoom in on them 200% = "quality mesh". No! It does not. Knowing how to properly mesh and utilize textures would make the same effect.
Why does this happen in SL? Because SL is not the bastion of luxury, original content, and legality you think it is. People- including big name creators- will buy models from CG trader or gumroad and then rerig and retexture them . This isn't necessarily illegal- until you realize this is done regardless of what the license of the mesh is, and what the actual creators thoughts are. As a result, quite a lot of "SL Original Mesh" is not made for an environment like SL, it is meant for rendering as static art in Blender or Daz.
And in fact, a few of the very big creators will use art students from China or the Middle East * who only know that the mesh is going into "a video game"* to make their meshes. There's also much more legal routes, a few people on SL itself will also rent out their services. The "originality" of the mesh is therefor merely about a contract of exclusivity, not "who made what".
So, you will see people in SL turning up their noses at "template mesh" and "amateur mesh" in favour of what they see as "quality, original mesh"- but it is in fact essentially ""Chinese sweatshop mesh" with either mistakes,or techniques meant for static renders being paraded as top quality haute couture !
And that's what makes some of the mesh cartels here funny- you are stealing what is already appropriated labour power! Authentic original SL creators are more like Aaack on here, making often niche goods in small batches. The fashion biggies are at best a team under one uploading avatar, or a sweatshop front.
Don't worry so much, folks. There's not a lot to envy on the other side of the fence. Create what you want here, and don't worry so much about making it like in SL.
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A huge amount of SL products use a cheat with LOD levels in the uploaded to falsely seem like its 1 land impact when it should be a lot more. Sure- you can put it on your Sim in SL and have it be 1 prim, but it's still using up the amount of resources both on the server on for your visitors viewers of a much heavier object. OS still counts prims/land impact like the way SL did back in the old days. Most anything you upload on the mesh uploader to here can be one prim , as an experiment you can go and link 24 prim boxes together. You can then use the firestorm "save as collada" function, and then re upload them. Most OS grids including Dreamgrids, it will be one prim.
This brings us to the second thing about secondlife "quality ". Items, especially clothing, tend to be way way way WAY high in triangles. We in OS, due to less people lagging any one Sim, can afford to be a little more relaxed about this. But in SL it really messes things up. People think individually meshed tiny buttons that don't blur when you zoom in on them 200% = "quality mesh". No! It does not. Knowing how to properly mesh and utilize textures would make the same effect.
Why does this happen in SL? Because SL is not the bastion of luxury, original content, and legality you think it is. People- including big name creators- will buy models from CG trader or gumroad and then rerig and retexture them . This isn't necessarily illegal- until you realize this is done regardless of what the license of the mesh is, and what the actual creators thoughts are. As a result, quite a lot of "SL Original Mesh" is not made for an environment like SL, it is meant for rendering as static art in Blender or Daz.
And in fact, a few of the very big creators will use art students from China or the Middle East * who only know that the mesh is going into "a video game"* to make their meshes. There's also much more legal routes, a few people on SL itself will also rent out their services. The "originality" of the mesh is therefor merely about a contract of exclusivity, not "who made what".
So, you will see people in SL turning up their noses at "template mesh" and "amateur mesh" in favour of what they see as "quality, original mesh"- but it is in fact essentially ""Chinese sweatshop mesh" with either mistakes,or techniques meant for static renders being paraded as top quality haute couture !
And that's what makes some of the mesh cartels here funny- you are stealing what is already appropriated labour power! Authentic original SL creators are more like Aaack on here, making often niche goods in small batches. The fashion biggies are at best a team under one uploading avatar, or a sweatshop front.
Don't worry so much, folks. There's not a lot to envy on the other side of the fence. Create what you want here, and don't worry so much about making it like in SL.
So you have "creators" in OpenSim who whine about freebie store owners god-moding their "creations" and hanging them up in their own stores full-perm.
Only that these "creators" themselves have god-moded post-2019 Sacrarium boutique content, renamed it and replaced the box art.
The Sacrarium "creators", in turn, have illegally exported that content from Second Life. Regardless of how they've acquired it there in the first place.
And the Second Life "creators" have either exploited art students or broken the license of free 3-D downloads. AFAIK, some have even stolen their "creations" from other SL users.
The hilarity.
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Only that these "creators" themselves have god-moded post-2019 Sacrarium boutique content, renamed it and replaced the box art.
The Sacrarium "creators", in turn, have illegally exported that content from Second Life. Regardless of how they've acquired it there in the first place.
And the Second Life "creators" have either exploited art students or broken the license of free 3-D downloads. AFAIK, some have even stolen their "creations" from other SL users.
The hilarity.
Jupiter, SL also OWNS anything and everything uploaded. If you read their terms, this has been being applied since about 2010. It was another reason I held back creating new things. Even your pictures you share with friends, they claim ownership. Fartbook does this as well. You foresake any and all rights, once something is uploaded to SL or Fartbook.
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This is probably one of the best responses I've seen to the whole issue of mesh production and how SL has the 'best' content. I still occasionally go to SL and whilst SL has always been 'laggy' in a way that is rare to find in Opensim, even in busy regions, the mesh load on busy sims in SL really slows things down in terms of viewer performance largely due to the loads imposed by inefficient mesh.
Nice to get the low down on how much mesh content for SL is sourced - I guess that fast fashion for SL is created in a very similar manner as its RL counterpart, by badly exploited sweated labour - stuff to be avoided if at all possible.
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Nice to get the low down on how much mesh content for SL is sourced - I guess that fast fashion for SL is created in a very similar manner as its RL counterpart, by badly exploited sweated labour - stuff to be avoided if at all possible.
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I wonder if was originally by Transgenia.
Transgenia is a wonderful shop and I think I have this exact item by them in Sl/ "the big grid". They have all sorts of noisemaking alien things. The question would be is it legal or not? That would change where you would find it. Legal it would probably be their Kitely area(which can be found on kitely search)...but maybe not free. Illegal/botted it might just be in one of those infamous "Stuff" boxes, which I imagine might be in Marche Noir(since another store, Cerridwen's Cauldron, also had something similar but as far as I know was SL only-and they are in a lot of "Stuff boxes").
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Transgenia is a wonderful shop and I think I have this exact item by them in Sl/ "the big grid". They have all sorts of noisemaking alien things. The question would be is it legal or not? That would change where you would find it. Legal it would probably be their Kitely area(which can be found on kitely search)...but maybe not free. Illegal/botted it might just be in one of those infamous "Stuff" boxes, which I imagine might be in Marche Noir(since another store, Cerridwen's Cauldron, also had something similar but as far as I know was SL only-and they are in a lot of "Stuff boxes").
Thanks for mentioning Marche Noir. I haven't found any such plants, but so far I've only taken a look at boxes from 2016. There are four more years of boxes still to unpack. I'll post if I find them.
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I only saw them at this place on the Metropolis grid, never anywhere else. I looked through the Transgenia stuff on the Kitely Market as I would pay for them if need be, but I saw nothing like these plants. I also looked on SL Marketplace, just to see if they are in their shop, but nothing. I honestly don't think they were the creator, but I could be wrong. Thank you for your response. It was helpful in any case. :)
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I have some on my region, they are in a dome and in planters, should be set to copy, if you like
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Thank you, Misty. Though they are lovely alien plants, these are not the ones I am looking for. I believe they were made from sculpts and they made an alien sound when you got near them.
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Thank you for your detailed comments! Consider the lack of inner surface a talisman against higher poly counts and upskirt camming creeps <3
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Ok...this mini discussion had me tempted to open up the R2v4 devkit again and take a look.
This is what I had to do....
The Devkit itself has either very corrupted or totally absent skeleton information in the github download for me. Is it my end? Is it their end? Is it just the download links themselves? Is it an issue between different maya and blender versions? I don't know, but for now I had to work with JUST body shape that has no bones and no weights.
So, I tugged the LK mesh around with sculpt tools in blender, and used a standard fitmesh rigged dummy.
Sometimes these things happens, have happened with other big name devkits I legally have from SL. In order for the meshes to even "Work" according to how users expect them to there's always at least a little bit similarities between the different brands and the standard old SL avatar. Furthermore, on some of my test uploads I noticed that the LK alpha layer works very well on R2v4's body. This tells me that Ava made the mesh very compatible with the SL standard avatar's rigging, which fits in with what you tell me about about standard size M fitting. This is why I choose to take weights from the standard fitmesh proxy I have, but shaping the actual mesh to R2v4's body.
Uploaded it. Works.
Works better then size M ( no giant ass), works better then maitreya/"athena rigs". Probably not as good as if devkit was more functional, and you still need alpha layer.
But, I'll put it in the box with alpha layer too.
Side note: I suspect one reason Ava Radius did this because V3 was, let's say, more than a kissing cousin in it's weights and skeleton info to Maitreya. Since there's been plentiful uploads of V3 to Second Life I feel like legal trouble wasn't far unless something was done (though I understand why this was done. Back when Slink was king a few smaller brands had mesh bodies with knockoff feet that fit slink shoes, for example.)
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This is what I had to do....
The Devkit itself has either very corrupted or totally absent skeleton information in the github download for me. Is it my end? Is it their end? Is it just the download links themselves? Is it an issue between different maya and blender versions? I don't know, but for now I had to work with JUST body shape that has no bones and no weights.
So, I tugged the LK mesh around with sculpt tools in blender, and used a standard fitmesh rigged dummy.
Sometimes these things happens, have happened with other big name devkits I legally have from SL. In order for the meshes to even "Work" according to how users expect them to there's always at least a little bit similarities between the different brands and the standard old SL avatar. Furthermore, on some of my test uploads I noticed that the LK alpha layer works very well on R2v4's body. This tells me that Ava made the mesh very compatible with the SL standard avatar's rigging, which fits in with what you tell me about about standard size M fitting. This is why I choose to take weights from the standard fitmesh proxy I have, but shaping the actual mesh to R2v4's body.
Uploaded it. Works.
Works better then size M ( no giant ass), works better then maitreya/"athena rigs". Probably not as good as if devkit was more functional, and you still need alpha layer.
But, I'll put it in the box with alpha layer too.
Side note: I suspect one reason Ava Radius did this because V3 was, let's say, more than a kissing cousin in it's weights and skeleton info to Maitreya. Since there's been plentiful uploads of V3 to Second Life I feel like legal trouble wasn't far unless something was done (though I understand why this was done. Back when Slink was king a few smaller brands had mesh bodies with knockoff feet that fit slink shoes, for example.)
Ruth2 and Roth2 have always been infamous for their terrible devkits. It seems like this is why there's hardly any clothing for them. This hasn't so much been an issue of Second Life users preferring the expensive luxury bodies from Maitreya, Slink, Belleza & Co., OpenSim users basically only knowing the ripped versions of the self-same bodies, and therefore there not being any demand for Ruth2 or Roth2 clothes. It may actually have been more of a case of people not using these bodies because there are hardly any clothes for them. And in Roth2's case, the Menswear Ghetto isn't solely to blame.
Both bodies were originally made by Shin Ingen in Zbrush, and I think Shin didn't even supply devkits. Within the RuthAndRoth team, work on anything 3-D became Ada Radius' task, especially after Shin had left before even officially declaring the bodies stable.
So the very reason why Ada made Max (Maxine and Maxwell) was because she was fed up with trying to nip and tuck on Shin's meshes and maintaining devkits for them in Blender. She told me a while ago that Roth2 needed to be remodelled entirely because none of the bodies in that family is compatible with anything existing without excessive alpha-ing and wrapping up pretty much the whole body in mesh clothes. It was easier to build a whole new "master body" from scratch in Blender right away and then make a number of derivatives including devkits.
And there seems to be quite a bunch of people waiting for Max devkits now, including two acquaintances of mine who have made and still make clothes for Ruth 2.0 RC#2/RC#3.
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Both bodies were originally made by Shin Ingen in Zbrush, and I think Shin didn't even supply devkits. Within the RuthAndRoth team, work on anything 3-D became Ada Radius' task, especially after Shin had left before even officially declaring the bodies stable.
So the very reason why Ada made Max (Maxine and Maxwell) was because she was fed up with trying to nip and tuck on Shin's meshes and maintaining devkits for them in Blender. She told me a while ago that Roth2 needed to be remodelled entirely because none of the bodies in that family is compatible with anything existing without excessive alpha-ing and wrapping up pretty much the whole body in mesh clothes. It was easier to build a whole new "master body" from scratch in Blender right away and then make a number of derivatives including devkits.
And there seems to be quite a bunch of people waiting for Max devkits now, including two acquaintances of mine who have made and still make clothes for Ruth 2.0 RC#2/RC#3.
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I really tried with the Ruth 2v4 devkit for other things but it's not so good unfortunately. If Maxine does have a good devkit then I will certainly give it a go. :)
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Guys...if folks don't like it that's fine but if you start slinging insults, slurs, and etc I'm going to have to start deleting and blocking. Opensimworld doesn't moderate strongly but I will moderate my own posts. Behave.
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I'm happy to hear the devkit thing will be fixed with new bodies. Among various other problems, at least one version of devkit is floating around out there that's just a tiny bit smaller in scale then the actual body, and therefor a clothing rigging becomes a huge hassle. Another version has a deeply nested error where the bones will pop out out of the body the very moment you rig the clothes to it. I look foreward to a legal body with a sane and rational devkit
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Alright...landing point is fixed.
Due to tech limitations of the beacon and being on the "mainland" of OSgrid, its still in water. However, all you have to do is walk foreward, up the hill, and you will be out of the water and at the shops. Sorry for any inconvience!
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Due to tech limitations of the beacon and being on the "mainland" of OSgrid, its still in water. However, all you have to do is walk foreward, up the hill, and you will be out of the water and at the shops. Sorry for any inconvience!
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Thanks for letting me know! Region restarted earlier today and it seems to have taken the telehub and all of the telehub settings into the aether! Will let you know when it is fixed.
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actually, thanks for reminding me! There is/will be a groot sized one too. A GF(grootfriend)!
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