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Jamie Wright @annawright
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This is truly the coolest build. Actually I can't decide because I also love the Last of Boston. But you can visit both in close proximity. It's a trio of game to TV series inspired builds: Fallout, Last of Us and CyberPunk. All amazing and true to form:)
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Passion seems like a good egg to me. Apparently there was some kind of dust up with Passion and AMV at some point. Weird post though...
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what happened at AMV was not passions fault, she did nothing wrong. but I agree this post is a bit weird. yes I know some confused Passionae thinking they were passion Jumanji but this post more or less acts like Passion is a bad person. not worded very correctly. All passion did was move on.
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Raise the barn! LOL undisclosed. I'm easy to find. Anna Cooper in Neverworld on Birch Grove Spring. Jamie Wright almost everywhere else. I build a lot on the OSGrid Sandbox Plaza when I need room and my oldest inventory:)
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"Content and info removed due to the lack of moderation on the site." Sound familiar? But thanks for letting us know where you do all of your nefarious deeds.
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I like that. I like that a lot. Because yeah block is not a total block and that's part of my issue with it.
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This isn't a free speech debate. The request for moderation is about people coming in here who are specifically seeking to disrupt the flow of what people do and share on this site related to virtual worlds. This alt of many faces keeps coming back and harassing anyone and everyone, especially those who engage them on ANY topic. Then it spirals into the box being held hostage by a nonstop abusive tirade. You were in the last one. Did you feel like that individual had anything to say about what their region was or what they so in the OpenSim? No...it was just looking for bits and peices to blow totally out of proportion so they could call the Metro police. Before that it was Anonymous.....this is not about moderating free speech. It's about the function of the site itself and people who come in with the intention to make the box completely unusable. Sure we can block. But sometimes we're blocking 2 and 3 people a week when we just came in to say "Hey look I made a cool thing...come to X place if you want a copy."
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It would control free speech because as like on SL, if someone didn't like what you said, or agreed with it, they called it "Hate" speech (Even though there is no such thing) and then you were banned or ejected from whatever sim you were in.
As I said, all it takes is the WRONG moderator to inject THEIR version of what is acceptable to post, and free speech is done.
Yes it's sad that we get a few insane morons a week in that box because they are socially and sexually challenged in all of life's endeavor and looking for some place to blast because they are jealous of something. Too bad so sad for them, blocked and I move on.
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As I said, all it takes is the WRONG moderator to inject THEIR version of what is acceptable to post, and free speech is done.
Yes it's sad that we get a few insane morons a week in that box because they are socially and sexually challenged in all of life's endeavor and looking for some place to blast because they are jealous of something. Too bad so sad for them, blocked and I move on.
I'm going to focus on the topic. First of all it's likely been all the same individul doing this. They have some very obvious patterns. But it's not just about their blasting in the box. They're making some disturbing threats against folks here. And yes we can block. But if you happen to log in mid spiral and you don't know that you're about to be their flavour of the week terrorist they're threatening to kill that's a bit jolting. And I am aware they also stalk folks from here at events and get into IMs the same way. Which is not something OSW can do anything about but still, let's make one place where they can't keep coming back to cause damage.
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100%!!!!! It's not a level playing field when it becomes people being silenced to avoid being targets!
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And it's not just limited to the box anymore. It started there but now when they come in it's posts, region comments etc.
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So your solution is barebones posting and communication? I could get behind that...lol "We have shovels. Only shovels." (Picture of shovels and hypergrid address) *comments are locked* XD
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And I feel like I need to address the coins thing. Monetizing anything will create a barrier for anyone who struggles financially. "I would like to point out a couple things about Satyr since much has been said about money. Yes, Satyr has a charge for a post and it is the most ridiculous small amount ever. However. I dont believe Satyr is charging that to "make money"......I think he charges that to keep out some of the trouble causers." The minimum buy in to get any coins is $10.00 USD. That might not seem like a lot but if someone is struggling, it can be. Some folks are just lucky to be able to have the internet and a computer of any kind. This isn't being provided for free. For full engagement, folks are paying. And not everyone can. That's why the box or whatever free chat there is is important. Because that should be a level playing field and safe space.
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if we are gonna quote numbers.....let's tell the whole story.
$10 = 600 coins
1 post = 5 coins
therefore $10 = 120 posts
or the cost of a post is approximately 8 1/3 cents
In the last 24 hours there were 25 posts
So 25 x .0833 = $2.08
Yes....it is true....Satyr made $2 (approximately) from posts in the last 24 hours. OMG how awful!
Satyr does make some money from ads and promos.......but virtually nothing from posts. He has kept posts affordable for the people of opensim.
$2.08 in 24 hours
That works out to Satyr making less than 9 cents an hour income for the postings!
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$10 = 600 coins
1 post = 5 coins
therefore $10 = 120 posts
or the cost of a post is approximately 8 1/3 cents
In the last 24 hours there were 25 posts
So 25 x .0833 = $2.08
Yes....it is true....Satyr made $2 (approximately) from posts in the last 24 hours. OMG how awful!
Satyr does make some money from ads and promos.......but virtually nothing from posts. He has kept posts affordable for the people of opensim.
$2.08 in 24 hours
That works out to Satyr making less than 9 cents an hour income for the postings!
I hear all that. And I know it's not some big racket. I know there are server costs too and domain etc. I still stand by that for some folks, the buy in to start being 10 bucks means they don't buy in. That's all. You are also awesome:)
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I hear what you're saying. The traffic thing again would have to be proven to be enforced. I have to respectfully disagree that this is just drama. This is people being harassed and mistreated and Satyr getting many many complaints about it. Yes he has done lots of great things and I'm not discounting those. If you're going to run a big site like this it does need to be looked after. Right now I'm deciding whether I stay or go. And if the majority opinion on how to deal with a nonstop barrage of abusive alts is suck it up buttercup...I'll likely go. And recognize that this just isn't the place for me. I want to relax in my free time and build cool stuff. I'd like to think...hope to think Satyr cares more than that about this place.
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Some of us remember the early days of OpenSim when it was a vibrant community focused on sharing tips, resources, and ideas to build our own unique spaces in the metaverse. Back then, the atmosphere was supportive and collaborative, driven by a passion for creativity and exploration. However, over time, the dynamics have shifted towards a more competitive environment centered around traffic and events. This shift has caused some to lose sight of the original spirit of OpenSim, where camaraderie and creativity were paramount. Instead of fostering a culture of collaboration and shared learning, there is now a focus on metrics and competition. And with that competition come the trolls, trying to take each other out. And some have succeeded. For the box to continue there has to be moderation. Yes we can ban and ignore but what about the new members or visitors of the OSW site? They see this when they first visit, this tarnishes all the work we have accomplished, all of us have built opensim. We respect Satyr and what he has provided for us, this site connects all of us.
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There is at least one outpost of collaboration and support on OSW: the "What Are You Looking For" group. In just 6 months, we have grown to 101 members. That shows me both how needed the group is, and that people are eager to help one another. https://opensimworld.com/groups/1060
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I applaud you for this, thank you for this link I will go there and see. Anytime I can be of help with obtaining items please let me know, I have many resources sites that allow us to use the models and such. I enjoy finding what people need. Ask Anna, I think I created some unusual items for her in the past lol it is FUN!
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Ah, you will be a great addition to our group. There was at least one time when an item could not be found, so someone made it! Many people ask for help in the box, but their message quickly disappears under all of the newer comments. In the group, posts persist, so you can scroll down to see what is still needed. I encourage you to see if you can help with some of the older requests. Also, if you see someone asking in the box for help finding something, let them know about the group. I look forward to having you be part of our lovely community of seekers and helpers,
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That's kind of what @MrSnoodle details below. But more like a vote to silence/suspend from posting for a prescribed period of time. I think voting right out could get petty and political under the wrong circumstances. And I can't state enough the need for a grace period BEFORE new users can post too.
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The problem with votes is that you still need moderation to combat sock puppets plus a rule that makes them a bannable offence. Like, if you're revealed to have a sock puppet, immediate ban for your main and all your sock puppets, e-mail and MAC addresses included, IP addresses if necessary.
Otherwise, someone with an agenda could and would activate their 20 sock puppets and create another 30 on top, and bam, instant 50 votes. And everyone with an agenda has already got loads of sock puppets, as do all notorious trolls and bullies.
The majority would not be defined by how many users one side has, but by how many sock puppets they have.
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Otherwise, someone with an agenda could and would activate their 20 sock puppets and create another 30 on top, and bam, instant 50 votes. And everyone with an agenda has already got loads of sock puppets, as do all notorious trolls and bullies.
The majority would not be defined by how many users one side has, but by how many sock puppets they have.
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Then why have a TOS at all? I mean the third option is many of us get so fed up we just stop using the site and then there is less sharing of all the things that are good here.
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The only reason why OSW is still so active is because none of the planned or WIP replacements has taken off yet.
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There is ONE owner who is also the ONE moderator. @opensimworld We would love it if you chimed in on any and all of this please. Since you're the only person with the actual means to effect change.
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That's a good question. and yes I think moderators would have to follow some rules too. You can't just ban someone because you don't like them. There would have to be proof that they violated the TOS. In the case of a repeat offender though, I think an exception can be made when the pattern of behaviour shows up again. But it's something mods would have to be careful of for sure. This recent incarnation of the alt of many faces honestly made me wonder for a bit. It was suspicious but they kept in in check for long enough that it wasn't a full reveal until they completely spun out again. But that's when a mod needs to step in. That first "OK there it is.." Not three days into it when everyone's nerves are shot.
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Maybe a system where if an account gets reported by a X number of people within a X amount of time then they are restricted from posting for X amount of time.
The reported person could then request moderators to review their actions if they feel like they were targeted unfairly, or they can suck it up and wait 24 hours or so before being allowed to post again.
Permanently banning accounts could be exacerbating the creation of ALT accounts, making trolls harder to spot and block. If a troll knew they were only timed out for a short time, they may just wait a while instead of making another account. This could help keep them easy to spot and avoid. They could make more ALT accounts, but if they continue being annoying it wouldn't be long before they are reported into silence again.
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The reported person could then request moderators to review their actions if they feel like they were targeted unfairly, or they can suck it up and wait 24 hours or so before being allowed to post again.
Permanently banning accounts could be exacerbating the creation of ALT accounts, making trolls harder to spot and block. If a troll knew they were only timed out for a short time, they may just wait a while instead of making another account. This could help keep them easy to spot and avoid. They could make more ALT accounts, but if they continue being annoying it wouldn't be long before they are reported into silence again.
In this case, the mods would have to know which account is whose sock puppet and not count each report from a sock puppet as an individual report.
Otherwise, one user with 20 sock puppets could report you out because moderation would see 20 individual reports and take them for 20 reports from 20 individual users.
Raise that number to 25, and someone will come with 30 sock puppets.
Keep that number secret, and someone with enough sock puppets will reverse-engineer it.
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Otherwise, one user with 20 sock puppets could report you out because moderation would see 20 individual reports and take them for 20 reports from 20 individual users.
Raise that number to 25, and someone will come with 30 sock puppets.
Keep that number secret, and someone with enough sock puppets will reverse-engineer it.
I like the reporting into silence idea. I also worry it could get petty "I'm mad at this person. Everyone go report them." Clique behaviour does not end in junior high unfortunately.
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It would have to be a flood of reports for it to time someone out, so it would likely have to be really bad abuse that annoys a lot of people. It would be unwise to timeout people with only a few sporadic reports. Also if multiple accounts registered with the same email or IP address report someone then only one of the reports should be counted, if any.
Maybe if an account was deemed to be unfairly silenced, then the people that reported it could be warned/educated or even timed out themselves?
Whatever happens, (likely nothing) the block option is always there.
I'm sure some system that would allow users to automate moderation would be beneficial and would require less human input than paying a team of people to monitor everything 24/7. They would only have to review things if and when a dispute was raised by someone that was auto timed out. I bet if the person was genuinely timed out for a good reason they wouldn't even dispute it if they knew that after 24 hours they would be allowed to post again.
Only people who genuinely believe the timeout was unjustified would dispute it, and even if the moderators were asleep and missed the dispute the falsely accused would be back after the timeout anyway. The main aim here is to not permanently ban an account to discourage the need to make ALT accounts, and to make people think about what they post more carefully.
I agree new accounts should be forced to wait 24 hours before posting anything other then a new region listing. I see no harm in being allowed to list your region instantly and posting on your own page.
My original idea of bringing back the chat room and binning the box would solve the visible abuse on the main page and still allow people somewhere to shout at each other.
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Maybe if an account was deemed to be unfairly silenced, then the people that reported it could be warned/educated or even timed out themselves?
Whatever happens, (likely nothing) the block option is always there.
I'm sure some system that would allow users to automate moderation would be beneficial and would require less human input than paying a team of people to monitor everything 24/7. They would only have to review things if and when a dispute was raised by someone that was auto timed out. I bet if the person was genuinely timed out for a good reason they wouldn't even dispute it if they knew that after 24 hours they would be allowed to post again.
Only people who genuinely believe the timeout was unjustified would dispute it, and even if the moderators were asleep and missed the dispute the falsely accused would be back after the timeout anyway. The main aim here is to not permanently ban an account to discourage the need to make ALT accounts, and to make people think about what they post more carefully.
I agree new accounts should be forced to wait 24 hours before posting anything other then a new region listing. I see no harm in being allowed to list your region instantly and posting on your own page.
My original idea of bringing back the chat room and binning the box would solve the visible abuse on the main page and still allow people somewhere to shout at each other.
I like that. I think a combo. Grace period before posting for new accounts and an account can be suspended from posting while under review. If the review is done by more than one moderator that would reduce possible bias and the whole god complex factor. I think three is always a good number. I'm not sure if I'm offering ever for here but I was a mod back on OpenSimCreations with two other people for awhile. We discussed stuff in our own chat and three different perspectives gave enough balance for decision making. Make it 3 from different parts of the world so time zones are covered. No one can be a big grid owner because that's a bias. But yeah having a few ways to stop gap the alts thing would be more effective.
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I think if they are going to make moderation a thing, they would want it to be as hands off as possible.
They clearly don't want to spend money on moderation, or it would be here already.
So making the reported/muted user manually click a "Dispute" button on their profile page would alert them to review the situation only when needed. This would negate the need to be constantly monitoring the whole site, and it would sort of police itself for the most part. Even if no moderator responds the user will be allowed to post again automatically when to allotted time expires. Hopefully in the rare occasions where an account has been unfairly targeted the issue would be resolved quickly.
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They clearly don't want to spend money on moderation, or it would be here already.
So making the reported/muted user manually click a "Dispute" button on their profile page would alert them to review the situation only when needed. This would negate the need to be constantly monitoring the whole site, and it would sort of police itself for the most part. Even if no moderator responds the user will be allowed to post again automatically when to allotted time expires. Hopefully in the rare occasions where an account has been unfairly targeted the issue would be resolved quickly.
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I know there are people who are all like oooh get the popcorn. But then when it goes on for three days and someone claims to be calling in the UK Metropolitan police and the government and will not shut up about it and then spins out into threats of violence...guess what...the popcorn got stale, abandoned and overturned. There does need to be limits.
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Anyone who threatens to call the Metropolitan Police or the UK government is bound to have several screws loose, (mind you, that still makes them substantially saner than anyone actually in the current UK government!). Anyone considering contacting the Metropolitan Police would be better off phoning the Keystone Cops, and would probably get a better response. Probably the best thing to do with such people is to just ignore them or block them if it's disturbing you in any way. Those engaging with such people are as bad, so perhaps they also need to take a step back and consider the rest of us. Personally it all seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup, but I'm not particularly triggered by these things, and anyway regard The Box as a bit of a cess pit at the best of times. If there is one thing that we should all do is learn to respect people. We may not agree, indeed, there is no need to agree, but we should be mature enough to be able to discuss anything, agree or disagree without drama, abuse or insulting behaviour.
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In my dream version of this site...lol. Dream version. There would be a team of moderators. Users would have to be manually approved based on answering a basic questionaire. Because there are a bunch of users on here that have NOTHING to do with virtual worlds at all. Folks not knowing what they're signing up for but it's an easy sign up. Somewhere in the mix is a RL dental clinic or two. Moderators could also help cull that kind of thing. But those are just dreams.
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